Pitching I/R help please

[Snapperny]

Board Member...Does the "football drill" you refer to sometimes cause a bullet spin to develop? My daughter is new to pitching (9 y/o) & she took a series of group lessons (4 kids) with the only I/R pitching coach that I could find locally. They did use the football drill & I think the PC is fantastic, but I find my daughter does release with a bullet spin at times. She clearly doesn't "rollover" like a roll over drop...just the opposite. It seems as though she turns the hand late, rather than early. Any recommendations for how to remedy this, or is it just a matter of timing? Thanks

 

[BoardMember]

Learning an I/R delivery requires a pitcher learn to stay inside the ball longer then that of a "bowler" or Hello Elbow "push" delivery for example. The longer you "pull" the better cleaner and faster the whip.........

The football can encourage bullet spin........HOWEVER.........It also encourages the proper LATE timing of the whip/snap. Especially if the hand is encouraged to fully rotate through release WITHOUT turning the ball over......

Give me "bullet spin" and I've got the beginnings of a VERY HIGH VELOCITY delivery. I can EASILY teach spins and changes of speed from there........At 9 years old, if your DD is exibiting a good I/R delivery with bullet spin, she will be the fastest pitcher in her age group..........Let here develop the velocity that comes with I/R for another year, then begin to work on spins and change of speed........

 

[BoardMember]

Watch the "nose" of the ball when Ueno FIRST releases it. It faces forward until it leaves the frame. This is her fastball.........BULLET SPIN

 

[eastcoast]

At 9 years old, if your DD is exibiting a good I/R delivery with bullet spin, she will be the fastest pitcher in her age group...........

Boardmember , that brings old memories back. My daughter had killing speed at age 8 and obviously she didnt had any PC at that time. I remember catching all her balls as bullet spins. Then at 9 we got her PC and PC completely re did her pitching with palm behind the ball. Oh boy after two years we are back to redoing her now. Thank god she didnt waste another couple years doing wrong thing.

 

[David Carter]

It could be timing, it could also be hand positioning. Hillhouse actually describes a lot of new pitchers when taught actually can start with a slight spin almost a peel drop or slight screwball type effect. If this is what is happening and the ball has a slight drop or tail to it I would not necessarily try and teach her to throw the ball straight. IMO, and I have started actually pitching myself, just so I could actually feel all these things we keep talking about it is almost like a baseball pitchers cut fastball. This spin would be a 7 to 1 type spin.

Now on the other hand if she is get something that looks more like a true bullet spin 9 to 3 that basically looks like a frisbee where the ball spin around but is not actually moving any direction but forward then it is too drastic and needs correcting. For me it actually help to think following through to my opposite shoulder if you focus on strictly across on your follow through you get a tendency to throw more of a bullet spin getting the slight upward component lets the ball rolls off the fingers straighter. Again though once they start throwing movement pitches you are not really going to want that 6 to 12 rotation anyway.

I'll let PC with more experience chime in just giving my two cents worth from someone who is trying to actually figure things out for myself right now.

 

[Ken B]

[Hijack] From the catcher's perspective, 9/3 in my mind is a curve from a RHP. 6/12 is a riseball. Also in my mind, a sprial spin can be 12/6 off the finger tips, but the axis is turned 90 degrees...[/Hijack]

 

[David Carter]

[Hijack] From the catcher's perspective, 9/3 in my mind is a curve from a RHP. 6/12 is a riseball. Also in my mind, a sprial spin can be 12/6 off the finger tips, but the axis is turned 90 degrees...[/Hijack]

I see what you are saying and I am going to have to apologize for me probably mixing up my terminology, but to me bullet spin is the ball looking like a frisbee, call it whatever direction you want, where the ball basically spins around but only goes forward and has other directional component.

I described my spins as if the pitcher was looking at the ball heading towards the pitcher again sorry if I am not making myself clear...AND....to make matters even worse I am left handed so I am constantly confusing myself about pitch direction and spin to begin with...sorry if I am only confusing everyone

 

[Ken B]

A bullet spins with an axis parallel to the path it travels. It would tumble if it spun like a frisbee.

 

[Snapperny]

Thanks Board Member. The PC actually wasn't concerned with the fact that she had some bullet spin...it was me. I saw the other girls (all older and trying to convert to IR) in the group rolling over early (causing more downward rotation) and I thought there was a problem with my daughter's mechanics . The PC said her mechanics are great for her age & not to worry about how the ball is spinning yet. So your advice is the same...get the IR mechanics down and the rest will fall in place?

 

[SoCalASABlue]

Forearm fire.... LOL
nonsense. The whole point is to utilize all your tools. The stride, plant, arm circle, timing, elbow, wrist, and fingers all need to be in play. Forearm fire is elbow only. Pitching is NOT the art of throwing strikes, but rather the art of striking batters out. Movement is vital. Spin dictates movement. Without wrist and finger snap... no movement... this is why forearm fire is nonsense.

I agree with you except for one detail...JMHO...pitching is NOT the art of striking batters out...it is the art of GETTING batters out with the least amount of damage...seen many "strikeout pitchers" who can't make the mental adjustment to umpires that don't call the pitcher's strike zone...