peel drop

[CoachFP]

Bucket dad, what these people are saying are not "catch phrases". They believe that you pull up on the ball. I have heard it explained and demonstrated. This is where these wrist flips came from. Thinking the hand comes under the ball why not do it as a drill? I believe the "hello elbow" also came out of this thinking regarding pulling up on the ball and continuing through right up to your ear. If you are throwing the ball near the back hip you can't pull up on it. Physically impossible.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Actually, the way Hillhouse teaches it, you do NOT pull up on the ball. You just release at the pocket. You don't shorten the stride, you don't get your weight over your front leg. You throw it just like a normal fastball, just release at the pocket. As far a spin, have your dd site with a ball while watching television, and spin the ball off her fingertips a hard as she can, up in the air.

I have Hillhouse's DVD and he doesn't spend a lot of time on how to throw the peel drop other than what you mentioned above. My question is since he and a few other experts believe that the four-seam fastball is essentially the "peel drop" what are they doing mechancially different, if anything, to make the "peel drop", drop? It seems there is more going on mechanically than simply releasing the ball at 7 o'clock vs 6 o'clock, otherwise with all other things being equal, the pitch would hit the ground before home plate because it is being released on more of a downward angle than the fastball.

There must be some other mechanical changes, albeit subtle, that the pitcher does to achieve more spin on the drop vs. a normal fastball rotation (i.e. finger pressure, upward pull on the seams of the ball, quicker snap, etc?). Is releasing the ball sooner causing it to spin faster which is creating more drop? Does Hillhouse even throw a fastball? He seems to argue having only three pitches: drop, rise, and c/u.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I have Hillhouse's DVD and he doesn't spend a lot of time on how to throw the peel drop other than what you mentioned above. My question is since he and a few other experts believe that the four-seam fastball is essentially the "peel drop" what are they doing mechancially different, if anything, to make the "peel drop", drop? It seems there is more going on mechanically than simply releasing the ball at 7 o'clock vs 6 o'clock, otherwise with all other things being equal, the pitch would hit the ground before home plate because it is being released on more of a downward angle than the fastball.

There must be some other mechanical changes, albeit subtle, that the pitcher does to achieve more spin on the drop vs. a normal fastball rotation (i.e. finger pressure, upward pull on the seams of the ball, quicker snap, etc?). Is releasing the ball sooner causing it to spin faster which is creating more drop? Does Hillhouse even throw a fastball? He seems to argue having only three pitches: drop, rise, and c/u.

Throw that FB at the catcher's knees, for a borderline strike on the batter, and you basically have yourself a useable peel drop.

 

[CoachFP]

Here's the deal. The angle of the pitch is the most important aspect of the drop ball. Secondly the spin needs to go 12 to 6. That is why Hillhouse says to let the ball go at the back hip to keep the trajectory of the ball from going up too much. This is why the notion of peeling up the ball makes no sense. So the takeaway message is to release the ball with a lot of snap, early, before the hip, with your hand behind the ball to get forward spin. After that it is practice, practice, practice.

 

[crystlemc]

My DD has been going to Hillhouse pretty much weekly for 3 years. He stresses that there is to be no change in the mechanics to throw most, if not all, pitches. Only at the release. My DD lives low in the zone and her drop does indeed drop. He has never really emphasized rate of spin, but to be fair, that is the one area that she has never really had much trouble with. She naturally throws a tight spin, "heavy ball". So basically, he focuses on her stride, glove arm, making sure everything is in line.

So no, there is no focus on a "faster" spin, or shortening stride or anything alterations of the basic mechanics. The only time her mechanics change, and it's arguable, is her hand motion on release of her c/u and getting her fingers "under" the ball with her rise. That's it. No stride difference, no visible difference at all.

And no, he doesn't throw a fastball. At the older ages, any flat pitch is going to leave the park pretty quickly. Better the change planes and produce grounders and pop-ups.

 

[starsnuffer]

It still amazes me how some people still believe that spin comes from the hand, wrist, elbow, or ear snap. It's all in the fingertips, period. The fingertips, using a similar motion that some of you are using to swipe through this page on your iPad, spin the ball in the correct direction just before and at release. The faster the spin (fingers), the more the ball moves. If you want more drop, spin faster.

-W

 

[GOINGDEEP]

It still amazes me how some people still believe that spin comes from the hand, wrist, elbow, or ear snap. It's all in the fingertips, period. The fingertips, using a similar motion that some of you are using to swipe through this page on your iPad, spin the ball in the correct direction just before and at release. The faster the spin (fingers), the more the ball moves. If you want more drop, spin faster.

-W

I do understand your point, and realize we all may "teach" different. In BB the wrist does play a role in our breaking pitches. Of coarse we are mostly rolling over the top compared to from under in FP. BUT, my theory has always been wrist snap along with fingers spinning the ball, and even sometimes wrist angle so the fingers have more range of spin have worked fairly well with DD and a few others. The only part of your post I disagree with is "it's all in the fingertips". I do agree the majority of spin comes from the last thing touching the ball, the fingers, but just my opinion the wrist has its role too.

Edit: First video that popped up wrist snap fastpitch.

 

[FrozenRope]

Here's the deal. The angle of the pitch is the most important aspect of the drop ball. Secondly the spin needs to go 12 to 6. That is why Hillhouse says to let the ball go at the back hip to keep the trajectory of the ball from going up too much. This is why the notion of peeling up the ball makes no sense. So the takeaway message is to release the ball with a lot of snap, early, before the hip, with your hand behind the ball to get forward spin. After that it is practice, practice, practice.

This is NOT easy to teach. I bought the DVD a few months ago and it all made sense, until we got to the peel drop, at least for a ground zero pitcher, and a Dad that knows little outside of the DVD. When I tried this with my DD, all she did was beat the hell out of some perfectly good softballs by firing them into the concrete floor of our garage, 3 feet in front of a tarp that was only 15 feet away!!! How the heck do you release the ball early and get the ball on plane? Is there a drastic closing of the wrist to a palm at the catcher position as part of the wrist snap to force the ball up off the ground? If so, doesn;t that go against the IR theory?She was getting frustrated and asking me what she was doing wrong!! We went back to fastballs and decided it was time to look for a pitching coach!

 

[CoachFP]

Learning from a video in a vacuum can be difficult sometimes. If she were bouncing it then she was letting it go too soon. Tell her to hold onto it longer and longer until you hit the right spot.

 

[starsnuffer]

This is NOT easy to teach. I bought the DVD a few months ago and it all made sense, until we got to the peel drop, at least for a ground zero pitcher, and a Dad that knows little outside of the DVD. When I tried this with my DD, all she did was beat the hell out of some perfectly good softballs by firing them into the concrete floor of our garage, 3 feet in front of a tarp that was only 15 feet away!!! How the heck do you release the ball early and get the ball on plane? Is there a drastic closing of the wrist to a palm at the catcher position as part of the wrist snap to force the ball up off the ground? If so, doesn;t that go against the IR theory?She was getting frustrated and asking me what she was doing wrong!! We went back to fastballs and decided it was time to look for a pitching coach!

It isn't easy. If you watch Bill's video, he teaches footwork first, then body motion, and then finally the arm/hand.

Without the proper footwork, leg drive, stride, and weight shift, the body will not be oriented properly to allow for a release" at the pocket". Most new pitchers lean forward quite a bit, due to the uncertainty and lack of strength with their leap, stride, and what to do with their pivot foot to allow proper weight transfer. That means that if they use the same release point that a pitcher with "proper" mechanics is using, the ball will indeed go right into the ground a few feet in front of the pitcher.

This is why the release zone, the hand, fingers, and arm, are about the last thing you should look at in order to fix mechanics. Start at the beginning of the chain and work from there. Fixing release point when other things are going on is like giving a car an alignment because it's pulling to the left. . . when the front left tire is flat.

-W