peel drop

[FrozenRope]

It isn't easy. If you watch Bill's video, he teaches footwork first, then body motion, and then finally the arm/hand.

Without the proper footwork, leg drive, stride, and weight shift, the body will not be oriented properly to allow for a release" at the pocket". Most new pitchers lean forward quite a bit, due to the uncertainty and lack of strength with their leap, stride, and what to do with their pivot foot to allow proper weight transfer. That means that if they use the same release point that a pitcher with "proper" mechanics is using, the ball will indeed go right into the ground a few feet in front of the pitcher.

This is why the release zone, the hand, fingers, and arm, are about the last thing you should look at in order to fix mechanics. Start at the beginning of the chain and work from there. Fixing release point when other things are going on is like giving a car an alignment because it's pulling to the left. . . when the front left tire is flat.

-W

This is exactly where the video confused me. He states that he motion should not be broken down into micro steps...in so many words anyway. How the heck do you teach a young girl with NO pitching experience all the intricacies of the footwork, arm circle, and body lean without breaking it down? Then, by the way, we want you to let the ball fly about 3 inches before you would a fastball. I have to be honest. My DD grabbed a hold of the very basic pitching motion almost instantly. Granted....she had some minor issues, but the basic mechanics of forward lean prior to "take off", up and out. footplant at 45degrees, and weight back were almost no teaches. She got it from watching the video. To be honest.. so did I. I learned with her. I did everything I expect her to do. I got to the early release and I was like HUH? There are some balls in the bucket with garage floor scuffs thanks to me as well...lol

 

[curiousgeorge]

This is exactly where the video confused me. He states that he motion should not be broken down into micro steps...in so many words anyway. How the heck do you teach a young girl with NO pitching experience all the intricacies of the footwork, arm circle, and body lean without breaking it down? Then, by the way, we want you to let the ball fly about 3 inches before you would a fastball. I have to be honest. My DD grabbed a hold of the very basic pitching motion almost instantly. Granted....she had some minor issues, but the basic mechanics of forward lean prior to "take off", up and out. footplant at 45degrees, and weight back were almost no teaches. She got it from watching the video. To be honest.. so did I. I learned with her. I did everything I expect her to do. I got to the early release and I was like HUH? There are some balls in the bucket with garage floor scuffs thanks to me as well...lol

Seriously? Welcome to "learning how to pitch"!! Of course it's not going to be simple. I doubt Hillhouse, Gillis, Osterman, or anyone just threw it perfectly on their first time. It takes practice and timing. The point of the video and what is trying to be taught is to not overcomplicate it with the "pull back" or pull up motion that some teach when throwing a drop.

As someone who's oldest DD went to camps, clinics etc. all over the place we learned both kinds of drops (peel and turnover). And it was an "ah ha" moment for us when Bill did his presentation on the drop because we realized we were simply over complicating it. She used to throw a "fastball" (doing the air quotes like Bill does when he mentions that FB word, LOL) and sometimes her pitch would have a sharp drop to it. Othertimes it didn't. Within 3 pitches of our lesson, he asked us if her FB often has a drop action to it and we both said yes. Then it was explained that all she was doing (without realizing it) was letting it go earlier to make it drop. She wasn't doing all the fancy "pull ups" or pull backs that we were told were essential to the peel drop. She already had correct spin and velocity, it was a matter of angle (as FPCoach said). So it made so much sense to us to never try throwing a FB again when we can use the exact same mechanics and make the ball drop.

Frozen, I agree with what someone else said, learning from a video is tough. If you can see Bill in person, I'd recommend it highly. You won't look at pitching the same way. And he's the first one to tell you he didn't invent or create anything but he explains it so simply and just takes out the BS that sooooo many others put into it. It's a real eye opener.

CG

 

[Coach Stan]

I threw a peel and a turn over. Peel for speed and turn over for off speed. For the peel I place the ball into my 3 fingers with the pinky tucked and the thumb in the middle of the other side of the ball with a 4 seam grip. I do not let the ball rest in my palm. When pitching the ball I do peel the seems and drop the thumb off the ball to get the ball to spin downward. I drive out the same distance like with all pitches however I do put a little pressure on my front big toe to shift a little weight. I pitched and teach this type of peel and it works very effectively many of my students who went on to college were recruited because their drop worked very well.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I do understand your point, and realize we all may "teach" different. In BB the wrist does play a role in our breaking pitches. Of coarse we are mostly rolling over the top compared to from under in FP. BUT, my theory has always been wrist snap along with fingers spinning the ball, and even sometimes wrist angle so the fingers have more range of spin have worked fairly well with DD and a few others. The only part of your post I disagree with is "it's all in the fingertips". I do agree the majority of spin comes from the last thing touching the ball, the fingers, but just my opinion the wrist has its role too.

Edit: First video that popped up wrist snap fastpitch.

Enjoyed this video. Thought it made multiple good points of interest.

Closing the hips too early will prohibit movement pitches in the long run. She’s basically talking about scalability of pitches … how a young pitcher learns to throw a fastball as her first pitch, will influence her ability to scale to a riseball.

Note how she speaks of wrist snap as the feeling of popping a towel … and how the arm needs to be loose enough on the down swing so that it feels like you are popping a towel in the reverse way. She even refers to it as a whipping motion … and that’s what you want. Focus is on cracking the whip and letting the wrist & fingers finish through the pitch … not just letting go of the ball … but finishing “through the pitch”.

The two things Cat said she worked on … not closing her hips too early and allowing for a whipping motion that has her wrist and fingers finishing through the pitch.

 

[redhawkridge]

So, if a pitcher is throwing a fastball (using IR of course) crossing the plate at the knees, all she has to do to add down-break to her pitch is release the ball earlier?? If that's all there is to it, shouldn't be real hard for everyone to do it.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Redhawkridge ... take note of what Cat says in the above video segment ... about the fingers finishing through the pitch ... as she says, you don't just "let go of the ball". That applies to the FB as well ... and even a FB thrown low in the zone ... such that it equates to a basic peel drop.