O'Leary, Cshilt,Wellphyt,FiveFrameSwing, other hitting "experts"

[SoCalSoftballdad]

Hi,

Since you guys post a lot of information on this technical hitting site and seem to have strong opinions, with very different views on how to produce an optimal fastpitch swing, I think it would be helpful to all of us if we could better understand what the key differences and similarities are between your hitting philosophies/techniques so when we read your past and future posts we know your core beliefs on hitting and where you are coming from? Currently, it is difficult for the casual reader who is trying to better understand hitting to take away information that is useful and easily applicable to their DD's own hitting technique. So to summarize, I am looking for you to explain your approach to hitting fundamentals and how it might differ from the other hitting experts.

Any takers?

 

[PEPPERS]

There is one thing I believe is that whoever you listen to you must consistent with your training, you can’t listen to one guy one day and another guy the next. You as a hitter must be consistent with your swing training and drills.

One girl on my daughter’s HS team has what I consider a number of flaws in her swing, she drops her hands, is a dead stop hitter, her legs leak during the swing, amount a few other things. Yet she is hitting around 500 with 4 home runs half way through the season. The one thing I see from her is she is consistent in her training and drills.

 

[livingontheroad]

Im about as far from expert as you can get.

But I am observant. And I have observed a lot of top elite travel teams , hitters, hitting instruction, and college hitting instruction and camps.

There are girls who have funky swings that work for them, and if they are hitting the hell out of the ball, many coaches wont touch their swing. There may come a time (level of pitching) though when that will fail them, so that is not very wise. Sometimes you have to take a step backwards in order to go 2 steps forward. Lots of coaches dont want to take that step backwards with a player they need for the current season.

In my experience, many at a high level of play teach hitting basically the same style. Its basically a rotational swing, but with a bit more forward momentum than Epsteins "pure" rotational swing that leaves you leaning badly backwards. They focus on 1) small timing step 2) keep hands high, top of zone 3) create separation, get hips around 4) keep hands inside 5) stay connected, dont extend before contact 6) palm up/palm down at contact 7) follow thru and finish over shoulder.

I think an exception is slappers, they are so conditioned to dragging the bat thru the zone that they may have a lot of bat drag when asked to swing away. Which is seldom for many.

But , some schools teach really different hitting styles that work well for them too, Hawaii and ULL come to mind. Theres more than one way to skin a cat, and to hit a ball. No one can argue with the # of HRs that Hawaii hit either.

No doubt hitting has changed over the years. The game has changed due to technology from the days of wood bats, etc. It used to be more of a pitching duel where you worked hard to just put the ball in play, get on with speed, play smart and squeeze a run in and win 1-0. That was accomplished with linear hitting that kept the bat in the ball path longest. Now with the bats and balls of today and pitching distance, long ball is clearly dominating high level play. The swings have changed with this.

 

[cshilt]

In my experience, many at a high level of play teach hitting basically the same style. Its basically a rotational swing, but with a bit more forward momentum than Epsteins "pure" rotational swing that leaves you leaning badly backwards. They focus on 1) small timing step 2) keep hands high, top of zone 3) create separation, get hips around 4) keep hands inside 5) stay connected, dont extend before contact 6) palm up/palm down at contact 7) follow thru and finish over shoulder.

This pretty much summarizes the approach I take. I wouldn't consider myself an expert, rather a student of the high level swing. Philosophically I'm in the RVP camp that Candrea/Enquist endorse. I've worked with Crystl Bustos and Howard Carrier on several occasions with their hitting camps, in fact I'm going to be working with them October 9th in Cincinnati. If you're in the neighborhood and are attending the clinic please say hello. Look for the good looking guy... I'll try to stand close to him and wear a black Nike hat stained with diamond dust.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

There are no experts IMO ... we're all just students of the game in varying degrees.

I have some of Mike Candrea's material from about 10yrs back. Mike has undergone some ***MAJOR*** revisions in what he teaches ... and personally, that's a good thing .... not only because what he used to teach was really bad, but because he sets an example for the way people need to operate to be successful over the long term. The game humbles us all ...... and if you are truly a student of the game, then you need to be willing to adapt as new and better information comes in.

 

[Towson 15]

Paul Nyman's stuff should be read by any serious student of the hitting and throwing process. You may not always agree with what he says or how he says it but anyone who studies his material will see the value in it. He has an unmatched ability to prove his beliefs via scientiic principles.His site is an invaluable rescource for the beginner as well as the "guru".Constructive criticism of a players throwing or hitting technique should not be seen as negative but rather ,an opportunity to learn and develope a more efficient and effective delivery or stroke.

 

[lhowser]

There are no experts IMO ... we're all just students of the game in varying degrees.

I have some of Mike Candrea's material from about 10yrs back. Mike has undergone some ***MAJOR*** revisions in what he teaches ... and personally, that's a good thing .... not only because what he used to teach was really bad, but because he sets an example for the way people need to operate to be successful over the long term. The game humbles us all ...... and if you are truly a student of the game, then you need to be willing to adapt as new and better information comes in.

Could you post a few of Mike's changes or PM me. I am coaching with someone who was taught by mike probably 10 years ago. It's tough for a regular dad guy like me to go against the teaching of Mike Candrea so i would olike to point out how he has changed. With quotes if possible.

 

[Wellphyt]

There are no experts IMO ... we're all just students of the game in varying degrees.

I have some of Mike Candrea's material from about 10yrs back. Mike has undergone some ***MAJOR*** revisions in what he teaches ... and personally, that's a good thing .... not only because what he used to teach was really bad, but because he sets an example for the way people need to operate to be successful over the long term. The game humbles us all ...... and if you are truly a student of the game, then you need to be willing to adapt as new and better information comes in.

Very well said.

I do not consider myself a hitting expert. I am a Dad and coach who has a passion for hitting. My philosophy is based on my belief that whatever I teach has to match slow motion video of the best hitters in baseball. As well as my belief that the FP swing should be the same as the baseball swing. I believe that the same physics that apply to hitting a baseball, apply to hitting a softball and that the absolutes that make the baseball swing efficient, also apply to FP.

My advice is to take anything anyone says about the swing and compare it to slow motion video of the best. Which means it's real important to get good at analyzing video clips, and recognizing the difference between style and technique.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Could you post a few of Mike's changes or PM me. I am coaching with someone who was taught by mike probably 10 years ago. It's tough for a regular dad guy like me to go against the teaching of Mike Candrea so i would olike to point out how he has changed. With quotes if possible.

Wow .... some of Mike's earlier stuff is outrageously bad. I mean really really bad!!

I sometimes chuckle and joking say ... I'm going to donate this hitting material to an organization I don't like. However, I would never do that.

My point is, it is possible to claim that you are teaching Mike's material, and be teaching material that is pretty bad. It's also possible to be teaching Mike's "current" material, and be teaching information that is ***MUCH*** better.

Let me see if there are any copy-right infringements ... and if not we'll post sections inclusive of the date that this was instructed.

 

[lawdawg]

In my experience, many at a high level of play teach hitting basically the same style. Its basically a rotational swing, but with a bit more forward momentum than Epsteins "pure" rotational swing that leaves you leaning badly backwards. They focus on 1) small timing step 2) keep hands high, top of zone 3) create separation, get hips around 4) keep hands inside 5) stay connected, dont extend before contact 6) palm up/palm down at contact 7) follow thru and finish over shoulder.

I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question - However, I have been using Candrea's TEAM USA Hitting Video as the benchmark for swing instruction (nuetral position, 45degrees, knees inside feet, negative move, toe touch, heel plant, etc. . . ). Basically, I've been instructing to hit against the front side with a little more weight to the back side-with some success at some fairly high levels, I might add. The success may have been in spite of my instruction and not because of it, though. I understand separation between hips and hands, I understand staying inside the ball, level through zone, palm up palm down, finish high.
What I'm hearing and seeing from other coaches and (one of my DDs just started with a new team that has former D1 players as coaches) and on this forum is that the all else remains similar except that forward momentum is paramount and the hitter finishes with a little more weight to the front side? Am I close?