No batter

[MTR]

So you were there and know what was going on in the dugout? Since the answer is no to that question,

No, nor do I care, my issue is on the field

I will let you know what was going on. A girl got hit in the head with a ball and was complaining of a headache. She was being checked for concussion like symptoms. So between having an extra adult in the dugout, a nurse checking on the girl who got hit. The manager himself trying to make sure she was alright. Trying to keep her teammates, who were concerned about her, away from her. Then trying to keep the girls in order and and ready to bat. Like I said, confusion in the dugout. I didn't think I needed to put all that out there since it really had nothing to do with the question I was asking. I thought just saying confusion in the dugout would be fine, I guess that isn't good enough for some of you. No one is making excuses, the Manager and myself, even though I was over on third base at the time, take full responsibility for the situation. We could have handled it better and all of us are using it as a learning experience. Although I am sure you will just say I am trying to make another excuse. I am simply asking a question about a rule. When I run into a rule I don't know or don't understand, I like to read it or ask about it and highlight it in the rule book. That way if it happens again I know the rule and can find it quickly if challenged by another coach or the umpire, just what I like to do. I don't know why a couple of you are trying to make it seem I am blaming the umpire or trying to make excuses, that is not the case at all. I am just trying to get a better knowledge of the rules since I am still fairly new to softball.

Are you kidding me? This is a no brainer. A substitute should have been placed in that position THE SECOND THE PLAYER COMPLAINED OF A HEADACHE. While some may believe the umpire was acting like jack rear, every adult involved with this team that thought this girl should even consider returning to the field meets that status.

Yeah, telling the umpire that you were bringing in a sub would have handled the situation, but just not sending a batter to the plate hoping that a player who suffered a head injury might be able to answer the call is one of the dumbest things I've heard.

 

[Umpireernie]

A girl got hit in the head with a ball and was complaining of a headache. She was being checked for concussion like symptoms. So between having an extra adult in the dugout, a nurse checking on the girl who got hit. The manager himself trying to make sure she was alright. Like I said, confusion in the dugout. I didn't think I needed to put all that out there since it really had nothing to do with the question.

Actually has a lot to do with question. If the adults are all busy dealing with injured player I'm going to hold up the ball game. Batter cannot be failing to take her place in batters box if I have called time and suspended play.

Hard to believe anyone is going after penalty strikes in this scenario.

 

[Umpireernie]

Are you kidding me? This is a no brainer. A substitute should have been placed in that position THE SECOND THE PLAYER COMPLAINED OF A HEADACHE. While some may believe the umpire was acting like jack rear, every adult involved with this team that thought this girl should even consider returning to the field meets that status.

It's very possible that there was never a thought of having her still bat but rather that all focus on the ball game was put on hold while attending to a young girl with a possible concussion.

 

[SoCal_Dad]

The pitcher throws three quick pitches, all three were called strikes.

Throwing the pitches was not necessary.
Calling three strikes in rapid secession, IMHO, violates the spirit of the rule.

What - in your opinion - is the spirit of the rule?

The umpire isn't going to call a silent strike. It will be signaled. The offensive team can then choose to either send a batter to the plate or choose not to.

The "three quick pitches" sounds like the umpire didn't wait the 10+ seconds between each pitch and that would be wrong.

 

[MT 73]

The "three quick pitches" sounds like the umpire didn't wait the 10+ seconds between each pitch and that would be wrong.

Exactly.
I have called an automatic strike on several occasions--usually for a batter who keeps stepping out of the box for signs despite my warnings not to do so.
One called strike always did the trick.
In the OP I believe that tending to an injured player is more important than getting the game back on track.

 

[p_funk]

Are you kidding me? This is a no brainer. A substitute should have been placed in that position THE SECOND THE PLAYER COMPLAINED OF A HEADACHE. While some may believe the umpire was acting like jack rear, every adult involved with this team that thought this girl should even consider returning to the field meets that status.

Yeah, telling the umpire that you were bringing in a sub would have handled the situation, but just not sending a batter to the plate hoping that a player who suffered a head injury might be able to answer the call is one of the dumbest things I've heard.

Once again, you read what I typed and just make your own assessment about what happened. Nowhere in my post did I say the injured girl was the one that was supposed to be batting. I apologize if I did not word it correctly or make that clear, but you are misunderstanding what I am saying. No one expected a girl with a possible head injury to go back in the game. It is obvious that you and I are not going to agree on this, so I will just let you think what you want and I will not respond to you anymore. Just wanted to let it be known to you and everyone else that, once again, no one expected a girl with a possible head injury to return to the game, I cannot express that enough. You can say what you want about me not knowing the rules and even question my coaching abilities. But player safety is something I take very seriously. Again, she WAS NOT the next batter and she was being checked out by an RN.

 

[marriard]

Once again, you read what I typed and just make your own assessment about what happened. Nowhere in my post did I say the injured girl was the one that was supposed to be batting. I apologize if I did not word it correctly or make that clear, but you are misunderstanding what I am saying. No one expected a girl with a possible head injury to go back in the game. It is obvious that you and I are not going to agree on this, so I will just let you think what you want and I will not respond to you anymore. Just wanted to let it be known to you and everyone else that, once again, no one expected a girl with a possible head injury to return to the game, I cannot express that enough. You can say what you want about me not knowing the rules and even question my coaching abilities. But player safety is something I take very seriously. Again, she WAS NOT the next batter and she was being checked out by an RN.

Ok...

So you leave out important details in your original post and put it forward as a straight rules question. The rule as stated it clear - an umpire is well within his right to call strikes on a batter who has not appeared at the plate promptly and has thus refused to bat - you even gave us a time before he called a strike (close to a minute).

When you didn't like the interpretation of the rule (and as you can see here most umpires would be looking to get details of what is going on and why there is a delay before enforcing this rule) you now add that a player (who was not the batter due up) was being tended to - but despite this the game was continuing. As you stated in your original post one of your batters just walked and the next batter fails to appear.

The umpire indicates "hey, where is my next batter"... You don't respond, or at least it is not clear how you respond. Everyone is still in the dugout. If you aren't going to reply to the umpire with what is going on what is he meant to do? A simple 'Hey it is a little confusing right now with the injury' probably would be all that you needed to say to get additional time from 99.99% of the umpires out there.

So in answer to what you have posted so far:

1) Apart from making the pitcher throw pitches, the rule is clear and yes, absolutely the umpire can do what he did. The rules were followed (well he made a hash of the pitches needing to be thrown, but otherwise he didn't make up a rule or get a rule wrong technically). This is not up for argument. Like most rules in LL it might be poorly written, but it is absolutely clear and technically he got it right.

2) Your coaching staff/dugout didn't handle this well. The game was continuing despite the injury being handled in the dugout as you indicated the previous batter walked. So you had already sent at least one batter to the plate in that inning and the injured player wasn't the player who was now supposed to be at bat. So at least one of your batter knew she was up and I know our players know who they are after or it is posted clearly in the dugout. You are telling me 12+ people in the dugout and none of them yelled out 'Hey Susie, your up now" and no one bothered to communicate with the umpire - even a simple "She's coming" or a "Hey Blue, having some issues due to that injury in the last inning" would have helped. If you aren't going to communicate with the umpire then the blame really can be on your team. It is reasonable for the umpire to believe everything is OK and the game is continuing as it should since there was no problem getting the last batter out to bat.

3) Experienced/good umpires probably would have handled it differently especially at this level by likely initiating communication themselves by coming over and talking to the coach. As an umpire I know there was an injury and confusion and something unusual happens (like a batter not being ready), I can likely see what is happening and I am going to allow a lot of leniency especially in younger rec and age groups. That said you didn't make it easy on him and not every umpire is good or experienced or lenient or just having a bad day or whatever - don't your coaching experience level, but I know if I was coaching I am talking to the umpire about what is going on or one of my AC's is.

 

[p_funk]

Ok...

So you leave out important details in your original post and put it forward as a straight rules question. The rule as stated it clear - an umpire is well within his right to call strikes on a batter who has not appeared at the plate promptly and has thus refused to bat - you even gave us a time before he called a strike (close to a minute).

Alright, I will respond to your points. This truly started out as a question about the rule itself, I did not want to get into the injury part of things because I knew it was going to turn into something it wasn't intended to be, and it did. I did not want this to become about the injury, just about the rule. I assure you and everyone else, that part of the situation was handled properly. The girl was being checked and monitored by a nurse. As I said, when it happened I agreed with the Umpire and what he did. It wasn't until after I read the rule (6.02), that I started to wonder if I was reading it wrong, or if there was another rule that I was missing.

When you didn't like the interpretation of the rule (and as you can see here most umpires would be looking to get details of what is going on and why there is a delay before enforcing this rule) you now add that a player (who was not the batter due up) was being tended to - but despite this the game was continuing. As you stated in your original post one of your batters just walked and the next batter fails to appear.

I just have an issue with the word "refuse". I will, and did, admit I shouldn't have focused so much on that word. But even you yourself said that it might be poorly written. Umpireernie, also said they agreed with me that the word "refuse" may not be the best choice. Then offered what other rule books say, "fails to promptly take her position". In my opinion that sounds much better than "refuses". In hindsight I should have just stuck with "confusion in the dugout" instead of talking about the injury. When I read a couple of post, they just rubbed the wrong way and I then added in about the injury. I do apologize for that, I should have just left it out of the post altogether.

The umpire indicates "hey, where is my next batter"... You don't respond, or at least it is not clear how you respond. Everyone is still in the dugout. If you aren't going to reply to the umpire with what is going on what is he meant to do? A simple 'Hey it is a little confusing right now with the injury' probably would be all that you needed to say to get additional time from 99.99% of the umpires out there.

It wasn't me in the dugout when the Umpire asked for the batter, it was the manager. I am an assistant and was over coaching third base at the time, and on our filed that is over by the visiting teams dugout. I am pretty sure I put that in one of my posts. I fully admitted that we did not handle the situation in the best way when it comes to the batters and the Umpire. None of us, the manager, myself or the other assistant, had ever been in a situation like that before. We are using it as a learning experience, and god forbid it happens again. We now know how to handle the situation better.

1) Apart from making the pitcher throw pitches, the rule is clear and yes, absolutely the umpire can do what he did. The rules were followed (well he made a hash of the pitches needing to be thrown, but otherwise he didn't make up a rule or get a rule wrong technically). This is not up for argument. Like most rules in LL it might be poorly written, but it is absolutely clear and technically he got it right.

Yup, I agree. The only thing he did wrong was actually having the pitcher throw the pitches.

2) Your coaching staff/dugout didn't handle this well. The game was continuing despite the injury being handled in the dugout as you indicated the previous batter walked. So you had already sent at least one batter to the plate in that inning and the injured player wasn't the player who was now supposed to be at bat. So at least one of your batter knew she was up and I know our players know who they are after or it is posted clearly in the dugout. You are telling me 12+ people in the dugout and none of them yelled out 'Hey Susie, your up now" and no one bothered to communicate with the umpire - even a simple "She's coming" or a "Hey Blue, having some issues due to that injury in the last inning" would have helped. If you aren't going to communicate with the umpire then the blame really can be on your team. It is reasonable for the umpire to believe everything is OK and the game is continuing as it should since there was no problem getting the last batter out to bat.

Yup, I agree. As I have said several times, when it came to the batters and Umpire. We did not handle the situation very well and take full responsibility. We have also used it to prove a point with the girls. We are always telling them that they need to be paying attention to the game and know what is going on at all times. I hope it doesn't seem like we are trying to put any of the blame on them, they were concerned about their teammate/friend and in no way was it their fault. We even told them that it wasn't their fault, that it was all on us coaches. In closing, I apologize to the board if I made anyone mad or, that was not my intent at all. I have just found this site and enjoy what it has to offer and don't want to make anyone mad. Thank you to everyone for the help. I now have a better understanding of this rule.

 

[marriard]

,,,,,

Well said.