Very true and I'm thinking you may be right about Doug's DD. I had a kid that was sidearming every so often. I think I about wore out the phrase "loose as a goose" with her.
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Hi Ken-Are there many pitchers that you are aware of that swing the ball back like Ueno? It's like she doesn't exactly have a circle, but the ball arcs in behind her back as she pulls down causing massive acceleration as she gets to release point. Almost like she's double jointed and can externally rotate like no other human on earth.
To hijack the thread a bit further
: I've been wanting to ask you, what club are you affiliated with?Swing back as in a backswing, or the arm swerving behind the back on the downswing? Speaking towards the latter, I'd guess that almost any high level pitcher that gets completely open will do something similar. Watch some slo-mo of Ricketts. The ball comes around her hip from nowhere!
LL as a mgr/coach, but the pitchers I work with are LL, ASA and HS.
LL as a mgr/coach, but the pitchers I work with are LL, ASA and HS.
Ken, Not sure, but she seems to be generating some decent speed relative to the seasoned pitchers we run up against.
Past I/R posts by BoardMember are absolutely fascinating!
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
- 2,637
- 0
Can anything take the place of the eyes of a qualified instructor. NO. Can a video or a book teach you many things about pitching? YES. Is a video or book going to teach you everything you need to know to train a pitcher? CRAP NO!
Doesnt Bill have a video that tells about 'The fixes', or something on that line?
And, PLEASE dont lump me into any category of pitching instructors.
For the recorde; I teach a slight bend in the elbow throughout the entire arm circle.
RH pitcher, ball towards 3rd base at 12:00.
Hips at 45 degrees at LFT
Release point - just in front of the hips for maximum acceleration and ball spered, no stopping the elbow at the back hip
I teach strong, fast and aggressive Leap and drag' style.
I taught my students exactly the way I pitched from very young through my adult career There are several movement pitches that CANNOT be thrown with open mechanics or any mechanics that require the elbow to stop at the back leg or have a release point that is not in front of the hip.
Again, please dont lump me in with the other instructors here. I do not want to be in that group.
Doesnt Bill have a video that tells about 'The fixes', or something on that line?
And, PLEASE dont lump me into any category of pitching instructors.
For the recorde; I teach a slight bend in the elbow throughout the entire arm circle.
RH pitcher, ball towards 3rd base at 12:00.
Hips at 45 degrees at LFT
Release point - just in front of the hips for maximum acceleration and ball spered, no stopping the elbow at the back hip
I teach strong, fast and aggressive Leap and drag' style.
I taught my students exactly the way I pitched from very young through my adult career There are several movement pitches that CANNOT be thrown with open mechanics or any mechanics that require the elbow to stop at the back leg or have a release point that is not in front of the hip.
Again, please dont lump me in with the other instructors here. I do not want to be in that group.
- Aug 21, 2008
- 2,383
- 113
Doug, Hal's right. Don't lump him in with others. He created many of the phases, grips of the ball, and deliveries that others can only HOPE to emulate. He wrote the book on being "sneaky" (literally). It'd be crazy to learn from anyone who is a student of the game when you can learn from one it's actual creators/founders. So, you'd be wise to print out his posts, his threads and piece together your own copy of his book.
Sorry folks. Like many of you, I hate how there are becoming personal attacks and people are really becoming arrogant here: this is the downfall of many great message boards. And I'm being 1/2 serious, 1/2 sarcastic. I actually stopped posting on here for a long time because I was actually accused of "stealing" information from "Coach Hal" and using it for my videos. I had never been so insulted in my life. Not because Hal isn't/wasn't a good coach or a pitcher, but the arrogance to accuse someone of something so preposterous is just mind boggling. I realize many want of you are hear for info, not ego measuring about who created a specific drill, who coined a specific phrase, or anything of the kind. But when accusations are made like this, or about someone teaching things they don't actually teach, it's enough to make someone furious. So let me be very clear, I didn't invent or create any part of the pitching motion. I never invented a drill or grip for a pitch. Hal seems to have invented grips, drills, motions, ways of being "sneaky", and other things which he wants everyone to know came from HIM. Whether they did or didn't is not relevant, he believes it.
Doug, good luck to you and you're daughter. By the way, CuriousGeorge is right, SLC is one of my favorite places on Earth. I played for both Miller Toyota and Page Brake from there. I would love to come out there if possible.
Bill
Sorry folks. Like many of you, I hate how there are becoming personal attacks and people are really becoming arrogant here: this is the downfall of many great message boards. And I'm being 1/2 serious, 1/2 sarcastic. I actually stopped posting on here for a long time because I was actually accused of "stealing" information from "Coach Hal" and using it for my videos. I had never been so insulted in my life. Not because Hal isn't/wasn't a good coach or a pitcher, but the arrogance to accuse someone of something so preposterous is just mind boggling. I realize many want of you are hear for info, not ego measuring about who created a specific drill, who coined a specific phrase, or anything of the kind. But when accusations are made like this, or about someone teaching things they don't actually teach, it's enough to make someone furious. So let me be very clear, I didn't invent or create any part of the pitching motion. I never invented a drill or grip for a pitch. Hal seems to have invented grips, drills, motions, ways of being "sneaky", and other things which he wants everyone to know came from HIM. Whether they did or didn't is not relevant, he believes it.
Doug, good luck to you and you're daughter. By the way, CuriousGeorge is right, SLC is one of my favorite places on Earth. I played for both Miller Toyota and Page Brake from there. I would love to come out there if possible.
Bill
JJsqueeze
Dad, Husband....legend
I guarantee I speak for many many people when I say that taking away your expertise from this board because of what anyone says makes the board far less valuable and we hate the idea that we could lose access to your tidbits of knowledge because of anything personal that anyone says. I've never met you and never spoke to you, but when I first started trying to learn about pitching so I could try to help my daughter, it was your videos and BMs IR classroom thread that made it all make sense. Up until then I was mystified about how a ball could be thrown at 70 mph underhand and had no clue how to help my daughter. I know I am one of hundreds of dads and coaches that feel the same way. On behalf of all of us I would say that we would greatly appreciate it if you and BM (although he doesn't seem to give any indication of having left because of it) could try to stick around and not let a single person drive you away with any sort of personal attack.
And you probably bummed Doug out by posting on his thread without any feedback about his DDs motion. Throw him a friggin bone.
And you probably bummed Doug out by posting on his thread without any feedback about his DDs motion. Throw him a friggin bone.
- Jul 14, 2008
- 1,796
- 63
Here Here Bill. Skinners last post was yet another "helpless advertisement" about himself. I've never seen anyone who boasts so much about himself......And insists he is he "god father" of fastpitch mechanics.........
I guess what I want to know is........"Who asked you about yourself Skinner??" Seems like I'm asking myself that question a lot lately........."Who asked Skinner about himself in this thread?"
Rich Balswick taught me the "Bent Finger Rise" when I was 17 years old.........Wonder if he got it from Hal?
A now 85 year old man taught me to pitch at 16 years old using a football in a parking lot........Wonder if Hal showed to him when he was a 2 year old?........
The title of this thread is "NEED HELP".........What did Skinner contribute to the thread with his last post? Nada........Zilch........
I'm going to contribute the way I normally do. Offer a view to the poster of things that are both optimal and sub-optimal in the delivery, and offer ways to improve the overall mechanics of the student, and improve the knowledge of the coaches and dads who read here.
I'll reiterate. I didn't NOT INVENT I/R.........I didn't invent kinematic transfer of energy from proximal to distal in human bio-mechanics. I simply brought it to the forefront here to help open the eyes of so many people trying to help their kids or other kids excel in fastpitch.
How people go about training fastpitch is their business, until they ask me for help. Then I help..........
Now back to the person that matters. Doug, you've done a pretty good job teaching your DD from Coach Hillhouse's material, especially lacking the personal interaction with the instructor in person which is sometimes impossible to create do to distance, money or what every reason.............
In fact, she looks pretty darn close IMO to someone who's PRETTY DARN GREAT..........
There are several things that can be improved.........Not the least of which is what I call "Wipe the Wall Syndrome". But I've give anything to start with a student with such a good foundation..........
I've always found the BEST way to improve a student who is NOT a beginner, is to start by seeing "the good", then tweak the things that should be/can be better...........
And I like to start the process with thought provoking questions to the coaches/students so they can work though things in their minds eye.........
So Doug, here's a start.........
Tell me what you see...........
Well discuss this more as time permits.
I guess what I want to know is........"Who asked you about yourself Skinner??" Seems like I'm asking myself that question a lot lately........."Who asked Skinner about himself in this thread?"
Rich Balswick taught me the "Bent Finger Rise" when I was 17 years old.........Wonder if he got it from Hal?
A now 85 year old man taught me to pitch at 16 years old using a football in a parking lot........Wonder if Hal showed to him when he was a 2 year old?........
The title of this thread is "NEED HELP".........What did Skinner contribute to the thread with his last post? Nada........Zilch........
I'm going to contribute the way I normally do. Offer a view to the poster of things that are both optimal and sub-optimal in the delivery, and offer ways to improve the overall mechanics of the student, and improve the knowledge of the coaches and dads who read here.
I'll reiterate. I didn't NOT INVENT I/R.........I didn't invent kinematic transfer of energy from proximal to distal in human bio-mechanics. I simply brought it to the forefront here to help open the eyes of so many people trying to help their kids or other kids excel in fastpitch.
How people go about training fastpitch is their business, until they ask me for help. Then I help..........
Now back to the person that matters. Doug, you've done a pretty good job teaching your DD from Coach Hillhouse's material, especially lacking the personal interaction with the instructor in person which is sometimes impossible to create do to distance, money or what every reason.............
In fact, she looks pretty darn close IMO to someone who's PRETTY DARN GREAT..........
There are several things that can be improved.........Not the least of which is what I call "Wipe the Wall Syndrome". But I've give anything to start with a student with such a good foundation..........
I've always found the BEST way to improve a student who is NOT a beginner, is to start by seeing "the good", then tweak the things that should be/can be better...........
And I like to start the process with thought provoking questions to the coaches/students so they can work though things in their minds eye.........
So Doug, here's a start.........
Tell me what you see...........
Well discuss this more as time permits.
