More early batspeed?

[julray]

Post not modified, just a bold faced emphasis/understanding of the meaning of your words.
Not "try" to hit homers. "Do" the things necessary to hit homers by emulating an actual home run swing.
No feelings here.

When you leave out half the post which alters the meaning, integrity is lost. When you start correcting and commenting on my grammar and it's obvious what I meant, you are derailing the discussion.

Anyway back on track... "Do the things necessary to hit HR's". You think you know better then the best in the game what needs to be done to hit HR's? Do you believe a good baseball and softball swing is the same?

 

[FP26]

No, this is not a chicken or the egg situation. We have the experts, the best in the game, the producers of the perfect swing telling us what comes first, TTB is a result, a downstream product.

This is where you and I disagree. To me, TTB starts earlier than what you are implying. No, not in the barrel dump way that some others like to portray it. I will take it one step further. The fact that Barry is TTB early is what allows him to stay inside the ball. I know I won't convince you, but I wanted to share my view on it. I enjoyed the conversation.

For the record, I find a lot of value in what the pros say. I try my best to keep an open mind. I even read posts of those I do not agree with, and every once in a while, I find something in there of value as well. I enjoy reading about different theories and different points of view. I just prefer to keep ego and agenda out of it. There is enough of that going on already.

 

[julray]

This is where you and I disagree. To me, TTB starts earlier than what you are implying. No, not in the barrel dump way that some others like to portray it. I will take it one step further. The fact that Barry is TTB early is what allows him to stay inside the ball. I know I won't convince you, but I wanted to share my view on it. I enjoyed the conversation.

For the record, I find a lot of value in what the pros say. I try my best to keep an open mind. I even read posts of those I do not agree with, and every once in a while, I find something in there of value as well. I enjoy reading about different theories and different points of view. I just prefer to keep ego and agenda out of it. There is enough of that going on already.

I enjoy discussing as well. And your posts have helped me a lot over the years.

The ideas I am presenting here are not my own. I'm simply compiling what the pros are saying, what they do that makes them successful. I know you weren't implying it, but this has nothing to do with my ego.

The fact that some people can say the pros don't know what they are talking about, the drills/practice they do are actually preventing them from being a better hitter. That they know better is nonsense. And I agree, TTB happens in every swing. But there is a difference between the cause and the effect. I believe the barrel turning is a result, not a forced action.

 

[_MIA_]

Unless you can tell me that the pros you are referring to have been doing these drills their whole lives, I am going to be very careful about applying their drills to a developing hitter. My guess is that most of these guys could already hit the sh*& out of the ball before they ever started doing a lot of this stuff so the only thing that this tells me is that the drills won't break a hitter who can already hit...

One pro I would listen to is JD Martinez since he actually changed his swing while he was a pro. Maybe Donaldson as well although his swing wasn't nearly as bad as Martinez's was

 

[julray]

Unless you can tell me that the pros you are referring to have been doing these drills their whole lives, I am going to be very careful about applying their drills to a developing hitter. My guess is that most of these guys could already hit the sh*& out of the ball before they ever started doing a lot of this stuff so the only thing that this tells me is that the drills won't break a hitter who can already hit...

One pro I would listen to is JD Martinez since he actually changed his swing while he was a pro. Maybe Donaldson as well although his swing wasn't nearly as bad as Martinez's was

So a hitter that can hit the crap out of the ball can do whatever the hell they want because it will not have a negative impact on their swing. It's an absolute necessity that had to be doing these drills their whole life in order for what they are demoing/ practicing now to be valid? Yet JD's swing was horrible before and he can turn things around right now by changing things up now? What about what he's been doing his whole life? You can't have it both ways. These drills(stuff) they do reinforces what they demo and what we see in their swing right now. They have the best swings on earth, we have HOF's who are reiterating what the best current players are saying right now. Evidence is overwhelming, what they are saying and doing is not an outlier. Drills that reinforce down to are what the pros are doing, and it's what they say they are doing.

Same tee height and location, Donaldson demo on the left, Donaldson Actual swing on right. Donaldson's initial movement is "down to". What we see Donaldson demoing below is more of an outlier IMO. He doesn't get into this position. Real swing on right shows barrel still above the hands and he's progressed further in his swing as you can see with the turning of the back hip.

Driving the hands down...

 

[_MIA_]

Yet JD's swing was horrible before and he can turn things around right now by changing things up now? What about what he did the rest of his life? You can't have it both ways.

JD got the majors based upon his natural ability (and I am sure lots of hard work). He has said he was taught hands to the ball and the result for HIM was a swing which was too steep and wasn't working for him in MLB. Whether or not the actual hands to the ball concept was the issue who knows but we do know that he was taught that way and it didn't work for him at the MLB level. Take away some of his ability and you can change the bolded to 12U/14U/16U etc. On the other hand for somebody else that same instruction may have ended up with a HL swing because of the way that person's body adapted to the instruction.

What we do know with JD is what his swing looked before and what the conscious changes to his swing were and what the results are. That is all I am saying. As people who are trying to teach hitters to improve their swing what we really need to see IMO are before and after results from which we can discern whether or not what was done can help our hitters. As I said above, everybody interprets instruction/drills differently so what worked for JD may not work for somebody else but for me it would be a good starting point for a hitter who was having some of the issues JD was having. That said, the instructor needs to always keep the end goal in mind and adapt accordingly while attempting to be sure to toe the line between over instruction and not doing anything (with that line also constantly moving as the hitter progresses..)

 

[julray]

JD got the majors based upon his natural ability (and I am sure lots of hard work). He has said he was taught hands to the ball and the result for HIM was a swing which was too steep and wasn't working for him in MLB. Whether or not the actual hands to the ball concept was the issue who knows but we do know that he was taught that way and it didn't work for him at the MLB level. Take away some of his ability and you can change the bolded to 12U/14U/16U etc. On the other hand for somebody else that same instruction may have ended up with a HL swing because of the way that person's body adapted to the instruction.

What we do know with JD is what his swing looked before and what the conscious changes to his swing were and what the results are. That is all I am saying. As people who are trying to teach hitters to improve their swing what we really need to see IMO are before and after results from which we can discern whether or not what was done can help our hitters. As I said above, everybody interprets instruction/drills differently so what worked for JD may not work for somebody else but for me it would be a good starting point for a hitter who was having some of the issues JD was having. That said, the instructor needs to always keep the end goal in mind and adapt accordingly while attempting be sure to toe the line between over instruction and not doing anything (with that line also constantly moving as the hitter progresses..)

Again quoting portions of a post is misleading, people lose context of what's being discussed. If the end goal is a HL swing, the best swing you can possible have, then I am not concerned one bit about a MLBer's complete path to the majors, I want to know what they are doing now to make them the best in the game. People are so desperate to discredit what the pros are saying, what they are doing because it don't fit their own agenda. Bottom line, what the pros are demoing, what they are practicing, what they are saying occurs in their swing. So those drills(stuff) are applicable to their everyday swings. To say that these hitters are just great despite what they practice each and everyday is ridiculous. and insulting to how they craft their trade. Several of these hitters have highlighted how the drills influence their in game swings. Are we discount this as well?

 

[_MIA_]

Again quoting portions of a post is misleading, people lose context of what's being discussed.

I was responding to your comment about JD hence that is what I quoted.

If the end goal is a HL swing, the best swing you can possible have, then I am not concerned one bit about a MLBer's complete path to the majors, I want to know what they are doing now to make them the best in the game. People are so desperate to discredit what the pros are saying, what they are doing because it don't fit their own agenda. Bottom line, what the pros are demoing, what they are practicing, what they are saying occurs in their swing. So those drills(stuff) are applicable to their everyday swings. To say that these hitters are just great despite what they practice each and everyday is ridiculous. and insulting to how they craft their trade. Several of these hitters have highlighted how the drills influence their in game swings. Are we discount this as well?

Not discounting anything, also not putting all my eggs in one basket. All I am saying is you better make sure whatever it is you are doing is giving you the result you are looking for and not just assume that because a pro does it means it is going to work for your 10 YO child...Back before hitting instruction was a thing this is how hitters were "developed". With proper guidance the process can now be accelerated but at the end of the day results are what matter.

 

[TDS]

JD, early days was all back all forward and swung around his body.

 

[_MIA_]

JD, early days was all back all forward and swung around his body.

Right and he attributed that to the hands to the ball instruction he received. I also remember reading somewhere that Trout's old man would tell him something similar and he never had that problem...so what does that tell you? Pay attention to your kid's swing and don't be tied to any one hitting theory...