More early batspeed?

[julray]

All of these guys practice and preach the movements you describe but when they play the game they swing differently.
Why?
Does the practice promote the game swing.
Is the practice wasted time and when the pitch is coming, their natural swing takes over?
Should coaches teach the practice swing or the game swing?

Not "whose Julie," but "who's Julie." It's a contraction of "who is." " Whose" denotes possession.

But they don't, so much video, so many pics in this thread that show hitters doing exactly what they are demoing in a game swing. They are breaking down their swing so we can understand... unfortunately when they isolate a movement that's where people get lost. You add that movement back in the entire process and it's very easy to see.

These pros are not misleading or misguiding you. Why do you think you know more about their swing then they do? Why are you saying they do something different, when they are telling you exactly what they do? How can you not see the hands to, hands down to type motion they keep demoing and practicing in their live swing.. examples all over this thread. Why do none of these pros talk about or focus on forcing TTB? Again you arguing with masters of their trade, not me. I'm just trying to illustrate clearly that what they demo/teach actually does occur in their swing.

"Is the practice wasted time and when the pitch is coming, their natural swing takes over?"
What kind of question is this? Do you disagree that these hitters are best at what they do? Drills and practice build the foundation and promotes the product we see every time they step up to the plate. You hear hitters time and time again say, "I slumped because I was trying to pull the ball in the seats every at bat, I was constantly rolling over and hooking the ball etc etc. They practice hitting the ball UTM and to opposite field because they want to stay inside the ball, stay behind and through the ball. This results in more HR's and extra base hits.

Before you start lecturing me on grammar, listen to the pros and learn how to swing a bat. After all, this is a forum where we discuss ball, not grammar school.

 

[FP26]

@julray,

The difficult part of these conversations/debates is that each person has their own way to interpret what is being said and how it is applied. An interpretation is not proof. Sorry. It just isn't. When I see the video below, I see Barry TTB. If you see him staying inside the ball, that is fine. I have no interest in arguing that and see "staying inside" as a valid goal. As far as what comes first.... Well, that is a VERY old discussion that I really have no interest in rehashing. Just isn't worth the time... Good luck to your DD.

 

[julray]

@julray,

The difficult part of these conversations/debates is that each person has their own way to interpret what is being said and how it is applied. An interpretation is not proof. Sorry. It just isn't. When I see the video below, I see Barry TTB. If you see him staying inside the ball, that is fine. I have no interest in arguing that and see "staying inside" as a valid goal. As far as what comes first.... Well, that is a VERY old discussion that I really have no interest in rehashing. Just isn't worth the time... Good luck to your DD.

Staying inside the ball is not the focal point of my argument, I apologize if I mislead you... that's just a side thing I have the go with Bobby who sees no value in pro hitters practicing or performing drills that help enforce this movement.

I see the barrel being turned every at bat, but hitters aren't focusing on TTB, they aren't forcing TTB. I don't think hitters can make it any more obvious what they are focusing on, and I see that clearly in their swing. The barrel gets turned as a result of.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

And then someone with clout comes along and exposes that the pros don't know what they're actually doing.

Three MLB batting legends talk about-what else?-hitting.

Ted Williams and Wade Boggs had been talking nonstop from the time they left Winter Haven, Fla. 70 minutes earlier. The two batting champions were on their

vault.si.com

 

[FP26]

Staying inside the ball is not the focal point of my argument, I apologize if I mislead you... that's just a side thing I have the go with Bobby who sees no value in pro hitters practicing or performing drills that help enforce this movement.

I see the barrel being turned every at bat, but hitters aren't focusing on TTB, they aren't forcing TTB. I don't think hitters can make it any more obvious what they are focusing on, and I see that clearly in their swing. The barrel gets turned as a result of.

I have been reading that conversation but I have decided to stay out of it. I have mixed opinions about drills in general. Every hitter is different... And if a hitter (especially a pro) believes there is a benefit to a particular drill they do, I am not opposed to it. In some cases it may be a real physical benefit. In others it may just be a perceived benefit (similar to a placebo). If they trust it, sometimes that's all that matters.

At the same time I see lots of young baseball and softball players performing drills in groups with very little instruction. At least 75% of them are doing the drills incorrectly. In those cases the drill is not helping at all. In fact, I would argue that it is causing more harm than good.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

But they don't, so much video, so many pics in this thread that show hitters doing exactly what they are demoing in a game swing. They are breaking down their swing so we can understand... unfortunately when they isolate a movement that's where people get lost. You add that movement back in the entire process and it's very easy to see.

These pros are not misleading or misguiding you. Why do you think you know more about their swing then they do? Why are you saying they do something different, when they are telling you exactly what they do? How can you not see the hands to, hands down to type motion they keep demoing and practicing in their live swing.. examples all over this thread. Why do none of these pros talk about or focus on forcing TTB? Again you arguing with masters of their trade, not me. I'm just trying to illustrate clearly that what they demo/teach actually does occur in their swing.

"Is the practice wasted time and when the pitch is coming, their natural swing takes over?"
What kind of question is this? Do you disagree that these hitters are best at what they do? Drills and practice build the foundation and promotes the product we see every time they step up to the plate. You hear hitters time and time again say, "I slumped because I was trying to pull the ball in the seats every at bat, I was constantly rolling over and hooking the ball etc etc. They practice hitting the ball UTM and to opposite field because they want to stay inside the ball, stay behind and through the ball. This results in more HR's and extra base hits.

Before you start lecturing me on grammar, listen to the pros and learn how to swing a bat. After all, this is a forum where we discuss ball, not grammar school.

The grammar correction is to point out an example of you thinking you're saying one thing, but you're actually saying something else. You had one intent but you're actions were completlely different. I hope you're capable of understanding the analogy.
Who's Julie!

 

[Bobby Shirer]

I have been reading that conversation but I have decided to stay out of it. I have mixed opinions about drills in general. Every hitter is different... And if a hitter (especially a pro) believes there is a benefit to a particular drill they do, I am not opposed to it. In some cases it may be a real physical benefit. In others it may just be a perceived benefit (similar to a placebo). If they trust it, sometimes that's all that matters.

At the same time I see lots of young baseball and softball players performing drills in groups with very little instruction. At least 75% of them are doing the drills incorrectly. In those cases the drill is not helping at all. In fact, I would argue that it is causing more harm than good.

I remember a girl who was an absolute beast at the plate. Hit with terrific bat speed. Great swing. She went into a slump because she was chasing bad pitches . Then some genius coach got in her head. Convinced her she needed to stay on top of the ball and hit inside out and UTM like all of Julray's pros say to do.
She became so bad she almost quit. Yet she was swinging more like the pros demonstrate than ever and the results were terrible.
Then she went to another coach who said, "There's no fence too far that you can't hit it over. Start doing what you naturally would do to accomplish that result." She plays college ball now with that pro player home run swing, not their practice swing.

 

[TDS]

Staying inside the ball is not the focal point of my argument, I apologize if I mislead you... that's just a side thing I have the go with Bobby who sees no value in pro hitters practicing or performing drills that help enforce this movement.

I see the barrel being turned every at bat, but hitters aren't focusing on TTB, they aren't forcing TTB. I don't think hitters can make it any more obvious what they are focusing on, and I see that clearly in their swing. The barrel gets turned as a result of.

Julray, the biggest issue is all the definitions of the terms being discussed.. I remember one time I thought ttb meant supinate the rear forearm as an action (synced to rear leg/hip pivot point) to create a vertical barrel path, but was told I am misrepresenting the term

 

[TDS]

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Julray, the biggest issue is all the definitions of the terms being discussed.. I remember one time I thought ttb meant supinate the rear forearm as an action (synced to rear leg/hip pivot point) to create a vertical barrel path, but was told I am misrepresenting the term

I agree that TTB is supination. I think the alternative is radial/ulnar deviation that is more like a karate chop.... which necessitates the instruction to stay inside the ball....and often results in back side flairs from dragging the bat by the knob.
Learning to TTB fixes all of that.