Jen Schroeder - The Packaged Deal

[undergroundga]

Hi Everyone, Jen here!

I need to start by saying, this is my first post on a board of this sort and quite possibly my last. Personally, I am not a fan of things like this, however, I was emailed this post my a number of people who agree with my methods and thought I might want to see. So, here I go...

As a player and coach I am ALWAYS learning and love to hear criticism because I believe it makes me better. I do not claim that ALL of my methods will work for EVERYONE, and truly believe different coaching styles work best for individual athletes, but, what I can guarantee are that my methods have worked for hundreds, and continue to work for many.

I have been fortunate enough to have helped produce some of the best defensive catchers in college. In fact, in the past 3 Division 1 College World Series' at least 4 of the 8 team's catchers have trained with me each year; including the last 2 World Series' Champions. With that said, I have been fortunate to develop a strong following understanding that my methods are not for everyone.

In teaching catching at an hour and a half clinic setting I first go over the skills slowly both audibly and by demonstration: this past clinic Aubree Munro and I demonstrated side by side. Here is where catcher's learn MY techniques.

As an entire group we start from the ground up, working from our blocking position up into our squat, working slowly, and with many eyes on the catchers. This last camp had 8 instructors all who played or currently play D1 softball. Once the fundamentals are taught as a group, stations are formed and the level of intensity is increased. Here, catchers will go through an array of stations, each serving a different purpose. It is my job as a coach to both teach and push an athlete. The station that Eric is referring to was a quickness blocking station. It was 1 of 6 different stations in the rotation. As a coach it is also my job to push and motivate a player. That station was run by a 3 time All-American, National Champion, and Team USA member. A top player of her time was yelling at them, motivating them, and queuing them with reminders of proper blocking techniques-to me, this experience is immeasurable to an aspiring athlete.

This station's purpose was to SHOW first hand WHERE a catcher's block, body and brain breaks down. So, in my eyes, this station proved it's purpose to Eric's daughter. Now, my hope is that Eric's daughter goes home and becomes SO good at her fundamentals she is soon able to block at that speed and eventually able to one day block a 70 mph drop ball at the Women's College World Series, in front of thousands, on ESPN, without thinking about it.

MY belief system of HOW i chose to BOTH teach slowly & then quickly may be contradictory to people who have not trained this intensely, and I understand that. I do however believe that with time and commitment, training like this has the highest upside to an athlete with the goals of playing at the elite level.

There is NO DOUBT the fundamentals are EXTREMELY important and these are the foundation of each and every one of my drills. In fact, my regular lessons whether they are 8 years old or a multi-time All-American do a fundamental routine before the start of every single lesson. However, I believe being pushed hard, having to react and work so hard you begin to question if you can do one more rep is an essential part in creating the ultimate competitor. You see, parents & coaches want their daughter's and athletes to be confident in their own abilities but aren't sure how to facilitate that. I can guarantee you that creating an environment where a female can accomplish something she once deemed impossible will breed confidence. That is my ultimate goal: to create an empowered and confident female.

As far as lifting into a higher position when a runner is on or placing your hand behind your glove hand, there was a reason they were not discussed- I don't believe in them. I have VERY strong beliefs as to WHY, but do not plan to share those here. My only advice would be to watch elite level softball: D1, PAC 12 and SEC and notice that catcher's simply do not do those things.

There are strong differences in a male and a female's body, so how we move and use our body must be different too.

With all of this said, I appreciate the time you are taking to read this thread and this post. Eric, I apologize if you were at all offended when I made an example of you yelling at Madeline from the stands. I am extremely passionate about what I do. I am very proud to have helped to create some of the best defensive catcher's this game has seen thus far and I plan to continue to work just as hard to maintain my belief that the softball-catcher is the most under-taught, yet crucial position on a softball field.

It is my goal to teach, motivate and inspire catcher's to work harder than they ever thought possible, to be proud of how they work, and to conquer things they never believed attainable. When an athlete discovers these things about themselves they become confident warriors of the game and eventually the leaders of their own lives. THAT is the ultimate goal.

Happy Holidays everyone!

And boom goes the dynamite!
I love NECC's instruction! I also love what J Schro is doing! I love this board and what it has taught me!
There is no one way to pitch, catch, or hit. Many people have been uber successful using many different methods! Are some better than others? Heck yeah!
When I first joined this board I devoured it, and still do. But I became nitpicky about soooooo many things and would obsess about the most minute details. I finally came to a realization that I'm just a dad. Never played fastpitch let alone developed a high level player. So now I let instructors instruct and I observe. I study up on softball skills to help make sure that my dd isn't learning anything way off base.
I would take my dd to an NECC clinic and I would take her to the package deal. But neither come to our area so we take her to the best we can find. I think the fact Schro has developed high level catchers speaks for itself.

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

Jen, thanks for being here, even if it is only for a short period (though I think we'd all hope you stick around). Amanda posts on here every so often, too. All viewpoints are welcomed by most of us, and we can always learn new things from those viewpoints if we keep open minds.

That said, the idea that because it's not currently done it shouldn't be done is outmoded and counterproductive. Maybe some elite softball catchers don't get into the NECC runners-on stance, but more than a few top defensive MLB catchers do, and if there's a higher level of catching, I'm not aware of it. Maybe it's something for you to look at and consider, challenge your beliefs and stretch your comfort zone? Just a thought. Thanks again for posting! I am definitely one who hopes you stay around!

 

[gatorcoach]

60' bases are a lot different than 90' bases. I have a son who was a baseball catcher and a dd who is currently a C and I can tell you baseball/softball catching is 2 totally different things. I personally do not care for the NECC r/o stance and my dd does not like it, but maybe some do.
Maybe it will become more popular in Fastpitch in the future, but right now many many high level colleges/travel teams/instructors are teaching using Jen's drills. I cannot comment on The Package Deal Clinics as I was not able to get my dd in when they were in Indiana. Hopefully, Jen will be back. Catching is like Hitting, pitching, etc there are many styles and not everyone uses just 1. Jen has had tremendous success w/ her style and I'm sure NECC has as well. However, like Jen said watch college softball and see what they do/teach and you will have an idea of what those colleges are looking for/using.

1 question on the NECC r/o stance. I understand the catchers hand is protected behind the glove, but what about the throwing elbow? It seems very exposed. Thanks in advance!

 

[Jen Schro]

You guys are all funny! I highly doubt I will stick around- but maybe some cameo appearances here and there

As far as the high squat, that is something I simply disagree with from testing it with my girls. A couple years ago I had some baseball background MLB guys talk to me about it (good conversation) so a few of us did some tests with girls. We had each girl go through blocking, throwing, timed into their throwing positions, and LIVE framing. These were girls from the age of 8-18. Most notable: 1) not one girl's pop time was decreased, not one 2) we had 2 live pitchers, both complained about the high squat 3) girl with the high squat got beat in a blocking race every time. Softball is a fast game, we need to be quick 4) Most concerning, girl's complained about pain on the tops of their knee caps and inner knees.

Personally, I know I am faster from a lower squat, get more strikes for my pitcher's and am more athletic and mobile from this position. But, to have 10 out of 10 feel the same way sealed the deal for me.

The concerning part was pain, so I began to do a little research. What I learned was that because of the differences in a male to female's hips, girls have more pressure on their shins-this is called tibia torsion. What tibia torsion does is put more pressure on a girl's knee caps. I went and spoke with 2 different sports doctors at UCLA who explained in detail why a female will complain about their backs, knees, and hips. It was eye opening.

Regardless of all of that, the success my catcher's have had has at this point in time has been unmatched from an elite (top travel teams, college, Team USA) level and that is my daily reminder that my passion, theory, and methods are helping young girls achieve their dreams.

I want everyone to know I was not at all offended by Eric's post, I TRULY like criticism because it makes me question, reevaluate and then either reaffirm or reconsider. This reaffirmed my beliefs, but absolutely made me a better coach, so thank you.

Eric, I am very sorry, again, for calling you out. It is simply a pet peeve when a parent is yelling at their child from the stands. Also, luckily, we take A LOT of video at our events and your comment about EVERY girl starting from a high squat was simply inaccurate. I do wish Maddie and you success in your playing and coaching careers and I am always here if you need anything.

Jen

 

[Eric F]

You guys are all funny! I highly doubt I will stick around- but maybe some cameo appearances here and there

As far as the high squat, that is something I simply disagree with from testing it with my girls. A couple years ago I had some baseball background MLB guys talk to me about it (good conversation) so a few of us did some tests with girls. We had each girl go through blocking, throwing, timed into their throwing positions, and LIVE framing. These were girls from the age of 8-18. Most notable: 1) not one girl's pop time was decreased, not one 2) we had 2 live pitchers, both complained about the high squat 3) girl with the high squat got beat in a blocking race every time. Softball is a fast game, we need to be quick 4) Most concerning, girl's complained about pain on the tops of their knee caps and inner knees.

Personally, I know I am faster from a lower squat, get more strikes for my pitcher's and am more athletic and mobile from this position. But, to have 10 out of 10 feel the same way sealed the deal for me.

The concerning part was pain, so I began to do a little research. What I learned was that because of the differences in a male to female's hips, girls have more pressure on their shins-this is called tibia torsion. What tibia torsion does is put more pressure on a girl's knee caps. I went and spoke with 2 different sports doctors at UCLA who explained in detail why a female will complain about their backs, knees, and hips. It was eye opening.

Regardless of all of that, the success my catcher's have had has at this point in time has been unmatched from an elite (top travel teams, college, Team USA) level and that is my daily reminder that my passion, theory, and methods are helping young girls achieve their dreams.

I want everyone to know I was not at all offended by Eric's post, I TRULY like criticism because it makes me question, reevaluate and then either reaffirm or reconsider. This reaffirmed my beliefs, but absolutely made me a better coach, so thank you.

Eric, I am very sorry, again, for calling you out. It is simply a pet peeve when a parent is yelling at their child from the stands. Also, luckily, we take A LOT of video at our events and your comment about EVERY girl starting from a high squat was simply inaccurate. I do wish Maddie and you success in your playing and coaching careers and I am always here if you need anything.

Jen

Thanks for chiming in again, Jen, and I hope we see you again at DFP.

I appreciate you sharing your input about your research and findings. I would be curious to know whether the catchers in your test were accustomed to working in from a "runners-on" stance, or just tried it for your test. My DD is accustomed to blocking from a "runners-on" position. Her attempts to block from a "no runners" position (low squat) are slow and fumbled, so are those of her teammates who have learned to block and throw from a higher stance. In a test, I have no doubt I could show a 100% result that starting in a low squat position is slower.

I am also curious about your findings on pain and joint differences between men and women. I would love to hear more about this issue. This could be serious enough for me to re-evaluate our approach to stances.

I'm not offended that you called me out for squawking at Maddie. I agree should have kept my mouth shut. My irritation with the drill and seeing the mechanical breakdown of girl after girl got the better of me. My apologies...but I still don't agree with the drill - LOL

There may have been a couple of girls at the very beginning of the final drill who used a low squat (thighs well below parallel with the ground), but it was quickly noticed by another parent and I that the girls were not starting in a low squat. Once we noticed the stance issue, it was constant with EVERY girl from that point, including the ones cycling through more than once. This was our observation at the field. It struck us as especially odd because you had just made your comments about not believing in using a high squat, yet here it was happening in front of us without correction. I'd be happy to look at video, if you're willing to share. I'm not so egotistical to think I never make mistakes.

On thing for sure, Maddie has never been pushed - or pushed herself - that hard, physically. You certainly met your goal of pushing the girls further than they thought they were capable of. As a former competitive athlete, I know how eye-opening these moments can be. As I mentioned in my review post, from a physical standpoint, this was the best part of the clinic (IMO).

 

[bcc69]

My DD is a catcher and plays 14u travel ball in SoCal. I have pretty much seen the best catchers in her age group and have never seen one of them use the NECC runners on position. I don't recall seeing any of the top college catcher use the NECC technique either. Personally, I believe setting up higher makes catching and throwing down the lower pitches much more difficult. I know the NECC die hards will tell you that blocking is faster also. I don't see how that's possible since you have to drop further.

Since the bases are shorter than baseball, most of the top softball catchers throw from their knees. That is not feasible with the NECC stance. My DD has taken several clinics from Jen and currently works with another well known coach in SoCal. He also does a ton of work with catchers throwing from their knees.

Regardless of what technique you believe in, there's no one better than Jen when it comes to training the girls to be the leader, quarterback, and commander on the field. I truly believe that's what sets apart the good vs. the great catchers.

Proper fundamentals and technique are obviously just as important as speed and agility. I can honestly tell you we have seen Jen's top catchers at work and they are solid in all areas of catching. My DD's teammate trains with Jen and I would consider her one of the best.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Nice of JSchro to come on here and post. I wholeheartedly support the mental mindset and attitude she is trying to train and instill in her catchers and the way she works to push and develop their fitness and mental confidence; however, I see little substance as far as justifying the mechanics she supports and teaches other than I was successful with them so that's what I teach and its led those students to success as well. The Hansen principle can be and, IMO should be, applied to catching just the same as it is with hitting or an other specific aspect of any sport - look at video of how the best do it and use that as your model. IMO the best catchers play MLB baseball and not female fastpitch SB, at least to date. IMO, JSchro herself and many catchers in the televised WCWS games use mechanics that don't match up with the best. IMO, those same catchers could be even more successful than they are/were if they used better mechanics.

IMO, the best instructors can provide a detailed and defensible explanation of why they teach what they do and why they don't teach the way others do and are open-minded about changing when another way is proven superior. If Jen doesn't want to go into detail why the mechanics she teaches are superior to those taught by NECC, I'd respect her much more for simply stating that she doesn't have the time or inclination to do that on DFP, rather than justifying them by pointing out her own and her students' successes. That's a really poor answer IMO because it refuses to acknowledge that there is a higher level that can be achieved, as the fact is that girls FP catcher-specific training historically has been non-existent to very limited and typically has led to a de facto artificial ceiling on female catcher development and progress. Admittedly, I don't buy buy that physical differences between males and females and the scale of the BB/FP games merit significantly different mechanical approaches, so my bottom line question would be why would I want my DD to learn JSchro mechanics when it takes no more effort to learn Posey or Lucroy mechanics?

PS - In the interest of full disclosure, I write this from the perspective of a former college BB catcher who has been in search of the best FP SB catcher training possible over the last 10 years for my DD who is a D3 college catcher who has worked with NECC.

 

[BuckeyeGuy]

I know the NECC die hards will tell you that blocking is faster also. I don't see how that's possible since you have to drop further.

I don't know enough to address the rest, but I can at least speak to this idea. If you watch video of both, you can see that starting from the low squat requires an upward movement before dropping to the block position, where the NECC runners on stance allows the catcher to simply drop straight down. That's the idea, anyway. Having gone to the web to watch some of Jen's videos, and having purchased and watched (and re-watched) the NECC vids, there is much less difference between Jen's regular stance (when they're working the drills) and the NECC runner's on stance than there is between Jen's regular and the NECC no runners stance. I think I understand what Eric is saying about the high squat he was seeing.

 

[WARRIORMIKE]

Mike piazza is still my favorite catcher of all time!!! Lmao

 

[Eric F]

This was Maddie attempting the final drill of Jen's clinic - Catch the ball, get back in line. Miss the ball and head to the field for strength exercises (lunges, etc.)....


This is one of Jen's drills that I like a lot, and will be included in my work with young catchers. It encourages explosiveness, athleticism, and an all-out effort.