Is it or isn't it...all about the win?

[GOINGDEEP]

GOINGDEEP, then you agree that winning isn't everything. You have moral standards that you follow which take precedence over winning. You believe that your own integrity is more important than winning a game. (By the way, I have seen a 30+ YOA 3rd base coach taunt a 12U pitcher. It was disgusting.)

I never said winning isn't important. I've won and I've lost. Winning is better.

Yes sir. Not only do I want to be know as having a great team, but also to be know as a great person. On and off the field.

That coach you mention about taunting the pitcher. He would have had a big target on his back all summer. I would have felt it was my civic duty to enter EVERY tournament he was at and punish him on the scoreboard. Believe it!!! I'd even throw a game, just to make sure we met on the dirt.

 

[ctfastpitch]

Yes sir. Not only do I want to be know as having a great team, but also to be know as a great person. On and off the field.

That coach you mention about taunting the pitcher. He would have had a big target on his back all summer. I would have felt it was my civic duty to enter EVERY tournament he was at and punish him on the scoreboard. Believe it!!! I'd even throw a game, just to make sure we met on the dirt.

Agree...the only problem is that you are also punishing the kids, who probably had nothing to do with it. Sure would be nice to find a way to identify and shame the offending coaches/parents without involving the players. I would probably have our base coach nearest to their dugout/stands start by calling out the offenders and asking something like "are you seriously trying to upset and rattle a 12 year old kid" I think that many of these folks are cowards when you actually confront them on it! If that doesn't work, I guess you have to go back to beating their butts.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

My DD just reminded me of this, and thought I'd share.

My older brother coaches a 18u baseball team. Last year they were in the top 10 in the country. He is the most aggressive coach on the planet. sorry big brother

In a big Regional travel tournament last year they were ahead 7-0. The last inning the opposing coach put in a mentally challenged player to pitch, probably already knowing they were well overmatched. The young man had never pitched in his life. My brother told his first 3 batters to swing at everything he threw. ( 9 straight strikes ) He came no where near the plate. Then my brothers team after the closing game prayer gave the young man the game ball. His parents thanked and cried with my brother all the way to the parking lot.

Even though he was going to win the game anyway, I was never so proud of my brother.

 

[Ken Krause]

I think the original question was more about whether it's all about the win to the players, not the coaches or parents. It's been a long time since I've played, but I think I can share some perspective anyway.

For the players, while the game is going on, in most cases yes it is all about the win. It's what you strive for, why you keep score, why you put in all those long hours of practice, etc. As has been pointed out, winning is more fun than losing. Everyone wants to feel good about what they did and coming out on top. Even an ugly win feels good.

Ten minutes afterward, for most kids, not so much. They've moved on. It's only us adults who care. I don't recall anyone on any team I've coached still feeling good about the last win a half hour later. They may be interested in the concession stand, cute guys they see, the t-shirts they can buy, or getting ready for the next game. But that last win? It's history, and we all know how most kids feel about history.

So in the aftermath, it's more about the game of softball itself, the season, their teammates, their goals if they have them and whether they enjoyed being part of the team. Wins and losses are just steps along the path, not the destination.

 

[jimginas]

well coached teams are going to win a good amount of games they play for a couple reasons.... demand for improvement of skills, proper teaching and understanding of the game, situations, strategies and rules (and good coaches TEACH these), organized practices that include repetition of mechanics, positive consequences and rewards for great effort, EXPLAINING a poor play (NOT ACCEPTING bad mechanics and correcting bad decisions), and team building to alleviate the issues that hurt team play.
*** THAT said... if we work harder then everyone else and we drastically improve and compete with good teams and dominate against less experienced teams, I can accept a loss to a better team (probably means BETTER coached!) ** I believe any game lost by less then 2-3 runs is MY FAULT anyway... decisions I made affected our chances to score (generate runs) or my ability to help my pitcher and defense hold the other team from scoring. (Could be my fault if we lose by MORE then 2-3 runs also, but if we play a good game and lose by 2-3 runs, I should have made better decisions during the game.) *** I don't like losing, its a reflection on me, BUT when we do lose, we need to learn lessons, and teach how to lose ( NO BLAME, NO EXCUSES, SOMETIMES the other team played better game AND sometimes the other team is just a better team. That’s a fact, so now we move forward and work to be better then the team that just beat us.
Yes travel ball players invest a lot of money and expect to win, but just as importantly, they expect to develop and learn (AND enjoy their teammates!) so they can compete for starting roles in HS and most for a chance to play in college. IF you have good pitching and catchers (WHETHER you developed them or they have other coaches), you may have a good chance to compete EVEN if you have average batting. IF you have a stud offense and defense, BUT lack pitching and good catchers..... even great play and good coaching decisions won't make up for the inferior pitchining/catching against good teams.

 

[fastpitch]

I think the original question was more about whether it's all about the win to the players, not the coaches or parents. It's been a long time since I've played, but I think I can share some perspective anyway.

For the players, while the game is going on, in most cases yes it is all about the win. It's what you strive for, why you keep score, why you put in all those long hours of practice, etc. As has been pointed out, winning is more fun than losing. Everyone wants to feel good about what they did and coming out on top. Even an ugly win feels good.

Ten minutes afterward, for most kids, not so much. They've moved on. It's only us adults who care. I don't recall anyone on any team I've coached still feeling good about the last win a half hour later. They may be interested in the concession stand, cute guys they see, the t-shirts they can buy, or getting ready for the next game. But that last win? It's history, and we all know how most kids feel about history.

So in the aftermath, it's more about the game of softball itself, the season, their teammates, their goals if they have them and whether they enjoyed being part of the team. Wins and losses are just steps along the path, not the destination.

Couldn't have said it any better.

 

[mudbug]

Id say that is really about trying to win, by learning, working, and playing the best that you can.

We are never sorry to lose to a team that was better. Frustrating to beat yourself though.

Agree that the girls are oblivious. Sometimes I think that what they most like about softball, is its like a giant slumber party when staying in hotels on the road, etc. The friendship and fun is a big part of why they love to play.

 

[jimginas]

Almost made a similar comment, but my blog started to drag on....... agree 100%

 

[Bishop]

Almost made a similar comment, but my blog started to drag on....... agree 100%

Yep that rings true to me. Now if we could just get half the parents to quit treating it like a slumber party and actually parent thier kids instead of getting soused by the pool. Sometimes it gets pretty tiring to have to babysit half the team, thier siblings and thier parents then coach all day the next day.

On Kens' redirect. Yep for the most part I agree. Most of the girls let the losses go pretty quickly, especially the plain ol' game games. Though a few of the girls still hadn't let go of our loss at State (ugly loss, defense fell apart) three weeks after the event when we were at Nationals I heard a few of them talk about that game.

 

[mudbug]

Yep that rings true to me. Now if we could just get half the parents to quit treating it like a slumber party and actually parent thier kids instead of getting soused by the pool. Sometimes it gets pretty tiring to have to babysit half the team, thier siblings and thier parents then coach all day the next day.

On Kens' redirect. Yep for the most part I agree. Most of the girls let the losses go pretty quickly, especially the plain ol' game games. Though a few of the girls still hadn't let go of our loss at State (ugly loss, defense fell apart) three weeks after the event when we were at Nationals I heard a few of them talk about that game.

Yep. Always interesting when half the parents dont show up till noon the next day because they are too hung over to get to ball park at 730 am. But the flipside is if it wasnt a bit fun for parents too, maybe fewer would be willing to shell out the kind of $$$ it takes to participate.