Infield fly

[Eric F]

We lost a championship game this weekend on a non tagged player and blue marker her out .... umpires are not doing this for the love of the sport ..

Do you think they are doing it for the money?

I have a habit of talking to umps - at least enough to thank them for being there. Very often, it leads to conversations. It turns out that pretty much all of them do it for the love of the game. Many have kids who have come and gone through the game, and they still love it enough to keep getting up in the wee hours of a weekend morning to be on the field all day long - in the heat or cold - while enduring abuse from coaches, and parents that post videos on forums questioning their decisions.

 

[The Man In Blue]

It would have been an easy catch for F5, but F6 called for the ball very quickly. If F6 is calling, she has priority. F5 didn't "wander off. After F6 called for the ball, F5 moved to cover 3B, as she should with runners on 1B and 2B.

Trek? Pilgrimage? Really?? F6 moved 15-20' at an easy pace to get to the spot of the ball, and attempted to make an easy two-handed catch at head level. None of the rest of this matters. Only the “unstruck” portion is relevant.

Eric I'm with you man. I'm afraid that play has been completely misdiagnosed by the man in blue. The fact that these umps see that as anything other than a routine catch for a 14u travel player is eye opening. Not exactly what I said. Or I didn’t make my point clearly.

Question -- does the fact that it landed 6 feet from where the 3rd baseman was positioned and would have been an extremely easy play for her come into play when deciding whether or not this was an IF? What if a ball is hit straight up over the SS head and she is camped under it but the 1st baseman calls it and comes charging in from 40 foot away and has to dive for it and then drops it? Is that no longer an IF since it was an extremely tough catch for the 1st baseman? Even though the SS was camped under it? Same as above.

I added some notes in red, but I think you misunderstood my post. I said I didn’t think it was an “automatic call” based on what I speculated the SOLO umpire was seeing.

For the record, yes, I would have called IF based on F5’s positioning regardless of anything else.

 

[The Man In Blue]

We lost a championship game this weekend on a non tagged player and blue marker her out .... umpires are not doing this for the love of the sport ..

Wow, that’s harsh based on an allegedly missed call that you didn’t like. We must do it because we enjoy stuff like that then?

Agreed. i would guesstimate that about 50% of the umpires now have never played the game. I'm talking about never even playing little league. They see an easy way to make some extra cash on weekends and they go take a class or two and the next weekend you see them at the fields. Clueless.

I would estimate more than 50% never played softball as we are still a male dominated profession. We NEED more female players to stay around the game in this capacity.

I am not saying there aren’t any “never played” umpires, but every umpire I know played baseball, women’s softball, and/or men’s fast pitch softball. There are far more “inexperienced in the particular sport” officials in other sports (volleyball, basketball, football, lacrosse, soccer, etc.) in my area. Something about putting on the gear and getting behind home plate that scares people off. Plus, softball/baseball are the most expensive sports to get into.

Going to go into another post on the money issue ...

 

[The Man In Blue]

Do you think they are doing it for the money?

I have a habit of talking to umps - at least enough to thank them for being there. Very often, it leads to conversations. It turns out that pretty much all of them do it for the love of the game. Many have kids who have come and gone through the game, and they still love it enough to keep getting up in the wee hours of a weekend morning to be on the field all day long - in the heat or cold - while enduring abuse from coaches, and parents that post videos on forums questioning their decisions.

I sure didn’t do it for the money last week at the State Tournament I did. For four days I woke up before 6am (I am NOT a morning person), drove over an hour, spent all day at the fields to do three games each day at a reduced rate in the scorching heat, and then drove over an hour home. Got up the next morning and repeat. I lost money.

Don’t get me wrong, the money can add up IF you do enough games. I have worked around 200 games each year for the last 4 years. It helped pay for part of my wife’s last new car, college tuition for multiple kids, and (finally this year) some home improvements and a short vacation this year.

Take out of that several hundred dollars in association fees, licensing, and clinics each year ... and another couple of hundred dollars each season in replacing uniforms and gear each year. Plus gas money, driving time, wear and tear on my car, time lost from work (or used vacation time), eating out ... and then intangibles like not being home with family.

I do a know a few officials who do it “for the money”. But there are far more efficient things to do if that is all you are interested in.

 

[texasheat]

I’m with marriard in not thinking that it is an automatic IF call. I think it probably should have been called, but the defense worked themselves out of the call.

It should have been an easy ball for F5, who decides to wander off and never even looks at it. Right there should have been the IF call — IF is not about what the defense actually does, but what they should do.

Instead, F6 then goes on the run. She gets there, but had to make a trek to do it. You have ONE umpire (who, as was pointed out, was not very mobile or interested) who likely watched F6 make the pilgrimage to try to make F5’s routine play AND then drop the ball. Based on that, I can see the “no call”.

Not saying I necessarily agree with it, but I get it.

So if the fact that it was an easy play for 3b is all that matters as you mention in your post, why do you say it isn't an automatic IF call and you only go so far as to say it "probably" should have been called in this post? I'm confused. We're all confused!

 

[The Man In Blue]

Because one thing is what I saw in the video and would have called based on that advantageous and repeated view ... the other thing is understanding what the umpire may or may not have seen live and why he made that call on the spot.

It is too late for most people to do this now, but try to clear everything you saw out of your mind. Now watch the 8-second video ONE time and tell me what you saw. What did you watch? The ball? The batter? The runners? The umpire? What was the umpire looking at? What color was the umpire’s shirt? How many umpires were there? Was the pitcher left-handed? Are you sure there were only three outfielders? At what point did the base runners start running? Are you sure it was the shortstop who made the play? Was the third base coach in the way when the ball went into foul territory? Where was the other runner? Where were the runners when the ball crossed the foul line? Did the ball stay in play? And on ... and on ... and on ...

The umpire has to quickly see as much as possible, filter out the useless information (which may not be useless 2 seconds later), and determine what she/he saw RIGHT NOW.

 

[texasheat]

Because one thing is what I saw in the video and would have called based on that advantageous and repeated view ... the other thing is understanding what the umpire may or may not have seen live and why he made that call on the spot.

so basically you're saying he missed the fact that the ball landed about 4 feet away from where the 3b was positioned, which should have made it a no doubter IF call, so therefore he blew the call. Agreed!

 

[The Man In Blue]

I am agreeing that I hope I would have made a different call. It is hard for me to say in black-and-white that I would because I wasn’t there. That is why I say it wasn’t an “automatic call.” I didn’t say that it shouldn’t be.

There is a lot more to criticize in that video than just that. I would start with “Why is there only one umpire?”

I’ve done a lot of training and teaching in my life, and I find empathy is a teacher’s best tool. Understand your students and their perspectives and use that. Telling this guy “You’re wrong” is not the appropriate approach. Seeing it through his eyes, understanding what went wrong, and then developing the solution together is much more productive than “You should look here and move there. Don’t screw it up again.”

 

[texasheat]

Telling this guy “You’re wrong” is not the appropriate approach. Seeing it through his eyes, understanding what went wrong, and then developing the solution together is much more productive than “You should look here and move there. Don’t screw it up again.”

????

We aren't talking to him blue, we're talking to each other. It's not as if he is watching this thread. Guarantee he has no idea this is a topic on this board.

 

[testandor]

My point is. The coach of the defensive team didn't lose anything. It remained 1st and 2nd with the out not being recroded on the IF but on the force out at 3rd. Atleast that's what the umpire called in the video. So why is he arguing. The argument should have came from the offensive coach on the out call at 3rd base.

NJ Gator, that was my fault. I misread his lazy, horribly ill timed "fair call" for a lazy, horribly incorrect "out call". I posted my correction earlier.