Illegal pitching? A survey

[FPump]

Illegal pitch calls are a POE with the NCAA this season. IP calls have increased already during the FL/AZ spring tournament season in record numbers. NCAA/SUIP staff will be looking for their umpires to continue this trend as teams begin conference play. The directives and training videos on IP's are quite specific, and leave no doubt as to what the NCAA expects...if ANY part of the pitch is not legal (by the definition in the NCAA rule book) the pitch is ILLEGAL and the umpires are to call it... every time they see an IP.
So if all these DD's are throwing illegal now with the hope of pitching NCAA softball in a few years, a word to the wise, learn to throw legal now while you still have time. Those recruitment videos of you throwing illegally, forget about it. what good is your assortment of pitches to a DI, DII, or DII coach if you can't throw them legally.
The NCAA is not going away on this, they'll get stricter with both the pitchers and their umpires. BTW...when an NCAA umpire is directed to do something by the NCAA/SUIP and/or his conference assignor/UIC, he will....especially if failure to do so will prevent him form working conference tournaments or NCAA regionals, super regionals, or WCWS.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I agree FPump. I know one of the gals that has been called for IP.

I was taking pics during her HS career and had the pictures that showed it. Truthfully, I didn't notice it, until I ran across the picture though.

 

[Bishop]

That's great news FPump. All I and presumably any other coach and/or parent wants is a level playing field to compete upon. When select rules are ignored, the field is no longer level. Hopefully the focus of the NCAA on the illegal pitch will trickle down into the youth organizations as well.

Hal brought up that with the younger pitchers 10u and younger the umps should be more forgiving on this rule. I won't argue against that. I see the logic of not discouraging young pitchers just starting out possibly causing them to give up before correcting the problems.

 

[George R.]

Are we looking at the same videos? The pivot foot on everyone of these girls is off the ground before the ball is released and is an IP. IMO, the pitching coaches / parents of these girls should be ashamed of themselves for not correcting these illegal mechanics early on in their development.

SoCal, the rule for dragging that pivot foot is not that it has to stay on the ground, but only that it must be on a plane close to and parallel to the ground. (My words, not how the rule states exactly). You've likely seen the area just in front of the rubber that gets hollowed out and forms a small pit there. There's no way a pitcher can maintain contact with the ground in that case.

 

[George R.]

Here's some info I found on line...

1) A CROW HOP is not the pitcher's failure to drag the push-off foot along the ground. A crow hop is, as the name implies, a forward hop or step off the pitching rubber by the pivot/push-off foot (typically moving it forward a foot or more) to "replant" it and use it for a second push-off point. It is not permitted in girls/womens softball.

In their rulebooks, the USSSA, ASA, etc. offer essentially the same definitions for "crow hopping":

ASA - "A crow hop is defined as the act of a pitcher who steps, hops, or drags off the
Front of the pitcher's plate, replants the pivot foot, establishing a second impetus
(or starting point), pushes off from the newly-established starting point and
and completes the delivery."
And the ASA rulebook also states:
"Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal."

USSSA - "A crow hop is the replanting of the pivot foot prior to delivery of the pitch."
Additionally, under USSSA Pitching Rules:
"Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal.
NOTE 1: It is not a step if the pitcher slides (her) foot in any direction on the pitcher's plate,
provided contact is maintained.
NOTE 2: Techniques such as the "crow hop" and "the leap" are illegal."

2) LEAPING can be caused by a failure to "drag" the pivot/push-off foot. Leaping, in fast pitch softball, is the act of having both feet off the ground at the same time

 

[Hustle Coach]

My only complaint is when the ump starts calling IPs when there is a hole big enough to lose somebody in , in front a the pitching rubber. The more your kicking the other teams butt the more they want a leap called. I beleive the girl in the 3rd vid has alittle bit of a hole in front of the rubber, but i didnt watch it to long. None of those girls had very good foot work. When there is a large hole, whats the best way to handle situation with the blue?

 

[3DD'sDAD]

Couldn't watch all of the video for all of the pitchers. Saw enough within about 45 seconcds each. Illegal all of them IMO. Not all crow hops, but certainly leaps. I can appreciate the difficulty blue has in seeing some of these leaps, but I would think that a base ump would pick this up , especially when brought to his/her attention and SHOULD call it. Not sure that they would though, which is a shame. Illegal is illegal. I have spent countless hours with my DD and others on our team to try to rid them of the leap and are basically there. Whew!

 

[FPump]

Here's some info I found on line...
Can be dangerous (inaccurate/outdated). Always better to quote the rule book and provide the citation...then everyone reading knows that what you are saying is based on fact, per the particular rule set the game is being played under.
That being said, the definition of CROW HOP that you posted is an accurate definition under ASA Rule 6-Definitions Pg. 26.

1) A CROW HOP is not the pitcher's failure to drag the push-off foot along the ground. A crow hop is, as the name implies, a forward hop or step off the pitching rubber by the pivot/push-off foot (typically moving it forward a foot or more) to "replant" it and use it for a second push-off point. It is not permitted in girls/womens softball.

In their rulebooks, the USSSA, ASA, etc. offer essentially the same definitions for "crow hopping":
...."etc. offer essentially the same definitions for crow hopping" ...again a dangerous statement. You have to understand that the various rule sets, in many instances, have differences (some major, some minor) in the wording, context, of their definitions and rules that make a difference in how infractions are interpreted and called by umpires. You have an alphabet of softball governing bodies...each with their own rule book..ASA, USSSA, NFHS, PONY, LLSB, ISF, NSF, NCAA, and on and on..

ASA - "A crow hop is defined as the act of a pitcher who steps, hops, or drags off the
Front of the pitcher's plate, replants the pivot foot, establishing a second impetus
(or starting point), pushes off from the newly-established starting point and
and completes the delivery."
And the ASA rulebook also states:
"Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal." (ASA Rule 6 Sec.3 J)

USSSA - "A crow hop is the replanting of the pivot foot prior to delivery of the pitch."
Additionally, under USSSA Pitching Rules:
"Pushing off with the pivot foot from a place other than the pitcher's plate is illegal.
NOTE 1: It is not a step if the pitcher slides (her) foot in any direction on the pitcher's plate,
provided contact is maintained.
NOTE 2: Techniques such as the "crow hop" and "the leap" are illegal."

2) LEAPING can be caused by a failure to "drag" the pivot/push-off foot. Leaping, in fast pitch softball, is the act of having both feet off the ground at the same time

LEAPING- (ASA) An act by the pitcher when both feet become airborne on the INITIAL MOVE and push from the pitcher's plate. Rule 1 Definitions Pg.29
LEAP (Pitcher)- (NCAA) An ILLEGAL act in which the pitcher becomes airborne on her initial movement and push from the pitcher's plate. 1.7.3

 

[FPump]

I like this survey and the comments. Specially the ones where they talk about who are these kids pitching coaches. Well, I am Katie Watkins pitching coach. However, I was not her first. I only worked with her for about a month before she did the video. Her crow hop was really bad when she first arrived and we got down a little. When she did this video she did it specifically for a college that was interested in her as a pitcher. They still are. Then she was looking for a Gold team to pitch for and the coach of a couple Gold teams asked her dad to put it on youtube so they could see her prior to coming to the try out. This all happened last year. She no longer crow hops, throwing consistently in the high 50's and consistently hits her spots. She is presently being recuited by colleges to pitch for them.

Coach Stan:
That's good news. And kudos to you for having the patience, experience, knowledge, and integrity, to work with her to make her a legal...and EFFECTIVE pitcher. I wish her success in her college career.
Thank you for sharing that story in your post.
PS: I'd have loved to have seen video of her crow hop before she came to you.

 

[George R.]

"Always better to quote the rule book and provide the citation...then everyone reading knows that what you are saying is based on fact, per the particular rule set the game is being played under. That being said, the definition of CROW HOP that you posted is an accurate definition under ASA Rule 6-Definitions Pg. 26."

FPump,

I agree in principle about your citation point, but my emphasis was on rebutting those here who state categorically that these pitchers are crow-hopping. They are not. I saw one pitch by one pitcher that was borderline crow-hopping, and that was in slow-motion. Unlikely to be caught by even the most astute blue, IMO. Frankly, none of these pitchers are particularly memorable. They could all use some work on their fundamentals. If I was their pitching coach, I'd be less worried about whether they were crow-hopping and more concerned about their form.