Illegal pitching? A survey

[Amy in AZ.]

These poor college coaches are getting these type of videos, buy the dozens every week. Unless you are applying to a JC, I doubt if many of these get looked at.

I know girls that are paying a couple of hundred dollars for these videos and then I go to coaching clinics and the coaches just want something simple and a few seconds long. Someone recently said that a D1 coach can tell if they are interested in the girl, during warm ups.

 

[JC heir]

What really irks me about these type of pitchers is not that they gain a huge advantage with the slightly illegal pitches, but that we spend hours upon hours with ours, & they wont be on the mound if they arent legal, then you cant even get a call from the umps when you point it out. Once you point it out & you have parents squealing in the stands, & you dont get the call, then the replanters get an even bigger advantage- a mental one, because then the legal team is too busy worrying about the bad umping to concentrate on business.

 

[SoCalSoftballdad]

One of the problems is the parents total lack of understanding of what constitutes a legal pitch. If you look at the informal survey above, about half the respondents said some or none of the girls are illegally pitching. This past weekend I decided to watch a couple of games played by a few teams in our league, just to observe and "scout" our upcoming opponents. I really focosed on watching the pitchers delivery and noticed that most of the pitchers would be called for IP if we had a field umpire (we only have a plate ump and he/she would never make the call). Pitchers were either leaping or picking up their pivot and replanting before the release. Some of these girls have been pitching for several years. Please parents, if your DD is a pitcher, try to educate yourself on proper pitching mechanics and share that information with your daughter.

 

[ASAPAump]

One of the problems is the parents total lack of understanding of what constitutes a legal pitch. If you look at the informal survey above, about half the respondents said some or none of the girls are illegally pitching. This past weekend I decided to watch a couple of games played by a few teams in our league, just to observe and "scout" our upcoming opponents. I really focosed on watching the pitchers delivery and noticed that most of the pitchers would be called for IP if we had a field umpire (we only have a plate ump and he/she would never make the call). Pitchers were either leaping or picking up their pivot and replanting before the release. Some of these girls have been pitching for several years. Please parents, if your DD is a pitcher, try to educate yourself on proper pitching mechanics and share that information with your daughter.

This is precisely the message I was hoping to draw through this survey. As an umpire, I get grief from parents over pitchers like these, who are illegal, as those who responded to the thread rightly saw. Presumably, the parents and coaches of these girls (videos) must not have seen that there was anything wrong, since the girls are still pitching in this manner. Those who responded to the thread did very well, and saw the violations. For the poll, I put "all are illegal" and "some are illegal some of the time" because if you watch the videos closely, some of the girls who throw multiple pitches are illegal on some, and not on others. So overall, great job folks!

The message I want to send is for parents and coaches to be educated in the pitching rules from the start, and not give any room for an umpire to be able to make an illegal pitch call.

 

[Dave D]

What the heck. I'll weigh in. With only a few pitch exceptions, they are all illegal. With that said, I don't see hardly any of them ever getting called for it in a game, even if there are base umpires. I've been having this conversation with umpires for more years than I care to count. A replant is a replant, I'll say, then the umpire will come up with a reason why it's not really a replant because (in my opinion) he/she knows that it's easier to tell me to shut up and get off it (or else) than it is to deal with the opposing coach and pitcher's parents who swear on a stack of bibles that the little darling has never been called for an IP before, and she's always pitched that way. Moreover, if the umpire DOES call an IP, then they'll a. protest, b. pull their kids off the field, c. hound my pitcher for some imagined infraction loudly for the rest of the game. I agree with the earlier post that it ends up giving the illegal pitcher an emotional advantage because now my kids have it in their heads that she has some kind of advantage. Mostly, when one of my parents or assistant coaches points out the IP, I tell them not to worry about it, because I don't see the girl getting any real advantage from it anyway. I'm trying these days to focus only on what my team is doing, and make sure they're doing it right, 'cuz there's at least some chance THOSE people will listen to me.

 

[Coach Al]

Well, let me look at this through the perspective of the umpire. I was one of the evil ones once upon a time. The first pitcher is crow hopping, definitely. All the others are a timing issue. The release of the pitch is suppose to be simultaneously with the step forward. It is easy to see in slow-mo over and over that it is not. However, at full speed it is very hard to pick up so most umpires are not going to call it unless it is very obvious.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I have a mother of a 9 YO pitcher that will always call me after a "big game," because her DD wasn't doing what the winning pitcher did. Winning pitcher is leaping, slapping, replanting, throwing all shoulder and grunting.

I try to reinforce, that the winning pitcher isn't going to be pitching by age 14 (although, maybe these videos prove me wrong) and if she is, she isn't going to be winning.

I stress proper form, practice 5 days a week, ice and composure.

When I get a 12 YO that is pitching ASA and replanting, it is almost a lost cause to change that.

Most probably, if DD isn't wearing out her cleat on her pivot foot, she probably isn't dragging.

 

[SoCalDad]

I won't vent too much more but I feel the ASA rule on pivot foot movement is one of the most overlooked rules by umps. When I have made "suggestions" to the umps that the opposing pitcher is violating this rule I have in virtually all cases received a response along the lines of, "She is moving her foot in contact with the pitcher plate". To me it almost seems like that portion of the rule allows the officiating crew a convenient way to avoid making the IP call.

Last year at a tournament one of my parents was experimenting with a high speed lens he had just purchased and took a series of photos of an opposing pitcher. In a series of 20 odd photos over a half dozen pitches you could clearly see that she had a small crow hop. I took these to the UIC as I felt we were likely going to meet this team again the next day. The UICs response? Yes on the pictures they were illegal but at game time speed it is too close to call. Frustrating.

 

[BLB]

Yes, these pitchers are all illegal under most Association rules. Does it make a big difference? I doubt it. Do some of the world class pitchers such as Osterman replant? Yes. Should their parents be ashamed of themselves? Far less than the people who don't care about bat companies selling weapons for bats and even far worst, the governing bodies who are sitting on their hands in regards to putting together rules to change this situation. I can't remember any pitcher who killed a batter because of a replant but there are pitchers and fielders who are in serious danger every time they are playing this game because of these ridiculous bats. By the way, I would probably have some cartilage left in my left knee if we would've been allowed to replant back in my day. How many kids are going to have to get seriously hurt before people start focussing more on rules regarding offence and stop crying about replants?

 

[Coach Stan]

I like this survey and the comments. Specially the ones where they talk about who are these kids pitching coaches. Well, I am Katie Watkins pitching coach. However, I was not her first. I only worked with her for about a month before she did the video. Her crow hop was really bad when she first arrived and we got down a little. When she did this video she did it specifically for a college that was interested in her as a pitcher. They still are. Then she was looking for a Gold team to pitch for and the coach of a couple Gold teams asked her dad to put it on youtube so they could see her prior to coming to the try out. This all happened last year. She no longer crow hops, throwing consistently in the high 50's and consistently hits her spots. She is presently being recuited by colleges to pitch for them.