I hate side toss, do you?

[Stryckout]

I am lucky enough to have a former MLB player teach hitting to my son and daughter. He uses a ton of side toss. The angle the ball comes into the zone makes no difference if the hitter has good balance and control of their head position.

 

[SBFAMILY]

A properly launched swing....WILL NEVER PUSH THROUGH CONTACT....regardless of what ball it runs into. Blamming the ball is kind of funny!

 

[rdbass]

Blamming the ball is kind of funny!

Can I blame the bat?

 

[Cowdogz]

Main problem with side toss is that kids don't do it right. They all stand six feet away and toss it into the belly. You need to be about four feet away and just lay it up. It's hard to get them to do that when they are afraid to get hit with the bat.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

The tossing is the hard part. I don't even attempt to have other kids do it.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

A properly launched swing....WILL NEVER PUSH THROUGH CONTACT....regardless of what ball it runs into. Blamming the ball is kind of funny!

It might seem funny to you, but it isn't funny to those that modify their launch process and push/muscle through contact.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Rdbass, in Papa’s post he correctly wrote of work already being done by contact. That is how a proper swing “should” work. When kids hit TCB balls they find that the longer duration of the bat/ball contact time allows them an additional opportunity to push … and what happens over time is that hitters modify their swing such that the work is NOT done by contact.

This isn’t an observation of seeing one or two kids modify their swing to hit TCB balls …. But the observation of a decent sample of 12A, 14A, 16G and 18G hitters.

The observation of desiring to drive the ball is correct. The players want this, the players in a sense compete to do this, and the coaches desire to see this ….. the desire is there ….. and given enough swings a player will tweak/modify their swing to accomplish this.

It isn’t like the TCB balls are simply heavier balls with the same bat/ball collision process. The bat/ball collision process is considerably different for TCB balls …. Which is what makes their use convenient … but at the same time, it can (and does) lead to hitters adapting/modifying their swing to account for the different bat/ball collision process.

Can you identify just one drill or hitting aid that doesn't potentially lead to a swing adaptation or modification if not done properly?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Can I blame the bat?

I suppose you could change the properties of the bat and then blame the bat. We've seen examples here of people swinging a rope-like bat with significantly different mechanics than when they swung a normal bat. They adapted to the bat they were swinging, and in the process modified their swing.

Likewise, if you significantly change the properties of the ball, which is the case when you switch from regulation softballs to TCB balls, then the feedback to the body is different. Recall what the 'good doctor' had to say about that feedback ... and how it wasn't beneficial with a normal ball ..... that isn't the case if you significantly change the properties of the ball.

Hitters "should" not modify their swing in an attempt to drive a TCB ball farther ... but many do just that.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Can you identify just one drill or hitting aid that doesn't potentially lead to a swing adaptation or modification if not done properly?

There should always be a concern when using different implements, that you do not unintentionally encourage mechanics that would be considered improper when the intended implement is used.

 

[29dad]

I really shouldn't weigh in on the TCB debate. I acknowledge that most of you have forgotten more about the swing than I will ever know. But what the heck, I haven't had anyone get mad at me for a while so I figure I'm overdue.

DD is on a very good team. First year 16U tied for 33rd at ASA/USA in VA after finishing T9 last year as a 14U team at ASA/USA in Normal. So.. not exactly PGF champs but very good. This year they implemented TCBs as part of their hitting routine. They used them extensively. Being conservative, i would estimate that each girl took about 125-150 cuts with TCBs prior to each tournament game. Well, not each game. i mean not if they were playing back to back, but you know what I mean. I believe they also took a TON of cuts with TCBs at practices too.

My observation? Something funny started happening with their swings. Can't quite put my finger on it, other than the swings universally became more "choppy," and several of the girls seemed to just quit after contact with hardly any follow through. That seemed counter intuitive to me. I mean TCBs would help you drive thru the ball even better, or so I would have thought. But that definitely did not match my observations. A lot of us were left wondering - what has happened to these girls' swings? And why were the swings so choppy?

I don't know. My anecdotal "evidence" proves absolutely nothing. Could have been a coincidence. But after reading this thread, which took me by surprise by the way because i thought TCBs were universally loved, I am starting to think that overuse of TCBs negatively impacted DD's team.