I hate side toss, do you?

[Eric F]

IBeing conservative, i would estimate that each girl took about 125-150 cuts with TCBs prior to each tournament game.

That's REALLY excessive. TCB recommends a very limited amount of use.

...start out slowly with 3 to 6 solid hits and increase to maximum of 18 to 24 in one hitting session.

I like TCBs...in moderation and under decent supervision.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

TCB recommends a very limited amount of use.

I would recommend heeding that advice.

 

[knightsb]

I really shouldn't weigh in on the TCB debate. I acknowledge that most of you have forgotten more about the swing than I will ever know. But what the heck, I haven't had anyone get mad at me for a while so I figure I'm overdue.

DD is on a very good team. First year 16U tied for 33rd at ASA/USA in VA after finishing T9 last year as a 14U team at ASA/USA in Normal. So.. not exactly PGF champs but very good. This year they implemented TCBs as part of their hitting routine. They used them extensively. Being conservative, i would estimate that each girl took about 125-150 cuts with TCBs prior to each tournament game. Well, not each game. i mean not if they were playing back to back, but you know what I mean. I believe they also took a TON of cuts with TCBs at practices too.

My observation? Something funny started happening with their swings. Can't quite put my finger on it, other than the swings universally became more "choppy," and several of the girls seemed to just quit after contact with hardly any follow through. That seemed counter intuitive to me. I mean TCBs would help you drive thru the ball even better, or so I would have thought. But that definitely did not match my observations. A lot of us were left wondering - what has happened to these girls' swings? And why were the swings so choppy?

I don't know. My anecdotal "evidence" proves absolutely nothing. Could have been a coincidence. But after reading this thread, which took me by surprise by the way because i thought TCBs were universally loved, I am starting to think that overuse of TCBs negatively impacted DD's team.

We didn't use the weighted TCBs much this year. When space allowed, we used the baseball size TCB wiffle (hole ball). When space was limited, we fell back to hitting off the tee into a sock net. I think your observation regarding the choppy swing has some merit.

 

[29dad]

I am just remembering that for the first month or so of the season the coach also had the girls take a significant amount of swings with the really large TCB as well. I think it's called the "atomic ball," or something like that. My understanding is that the girls revolted and stopped hitting the atomic ball due to wrist pain.

Anyway, just remembering that this thread was about side toss. I apologize to the OP for going off track. I'll bow out. But thanks to the OP for starting this thread. It was very eye opening.

 

[Eric F]

I am just remembering that for the first month or so of the season the coach also had the girls take a significant amount of swings with the really large TCB as well. I think it's called the "atomic ball," or something like that. My understanding is that the girls revolted and stopped hitting the atomic ball due to wrist pain.

Anyway, just remembering that this thread was about side toss. I apologize to the OP for going off track. I'll bow out. But thanks to the OP for starting this thread. It was very eye opening.

IMO, the Atomic TCB is a bad idea for any amount of swings.

 

[rdbass]

Makes me think of the teams that hit smaller basketballs or deflated basketballs. It hurts if your swing isn't 'correct'. Maybe hitters hitting the TCB 'change' their swings to prevent hurting themselves because of improperly swinging their bats. TCB aren't as 'forgiven' as softballs. JMHO.

 

[FP26]

Have had the opportunity to see many kids hitting with these balls. What they encourage is "pushing" through the ball. What they discourage is a properly release of the barrel through contact.

We used TCBs for a while and decided to stop because we didn't care for how some of the players were adjusting their swings - pushing. I am not a big fan of side toss but do use it at tournaments when space is limited. Some complexes we go to have cages with screens. That is always my first choice if available.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Many coaches love TCB balls … they offer the ability for their players to swing at a front-tossed ball within a limited space, allow for a relatively quick pickup and create an opportunity to get their players through a swing regime in a relatively short time frame.

Players picking up the scattered balls appreciate the quicker pickup process and less work. Thumbs up there as well.

The actual hitter receives a somewhat different perspective … especially when the experience is new to them. It goes something like this.

A player receives a front tossed ball. They release through contact as normal, but observe that the ball doesn’t go quite so far. The hitter takes note of the result, and not being satisfied, wishes to drive the ball farther. They repeat their normal swing with more energy, but remain dissatisfied with the small improvement. The hitter takes note of the feel of a prolonged contact time … which is distinctively different with TCB balls. As they get to work attempting to drive the TCB ball farther they become semi-frustrated … they are not satisfied with how they are driving the ball … they want to match up, or even exceed, the distance achieved when a coach complimented another teammate that drove/pushed the ball farther …. and so they begin ‘experimenting’ … and it isn’t long before many target their energies towards the new feel of the prolonged contact period. They respond by modifying their swing to extend significantly more energy going through contact … and this action leads to a muscled/pushed action through contact. They send the TCB farther with their modified approach, receive positive feedback from the coach regarding the improved result from their efforts, and feel good about making perceived progress with their newly acquired faulty adjustments.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Many coaches love TCB balls … they offer the ability for their players to swing at a front-tossed ball within a limited space, allow for a relatively quick pickup and create an opportunity to get their players through a swing regime in a relatively short time frame.

Players picking up the scattered balls appreciate the quicker pickup process and less work. Thumbs up there as well.

The actual hitter receives a somewhat different perspective … especially when the experience is new to them. It goes something like this.

A player receives a front tossed ball. They release through contact as normal, but observe that the ball doesn’t go quite so far. The hitter takes note of the result, and not being satisfied, wishes to drive the ball farther. They repeat their normal swing with more energy, but remain dissatisfied with the small improvement. The hitter takes note of the feel of a prolonged contact time … which is distinctively different with TCB balls. As they get to work attempting to drive the TCB ball farther they become semi-frustrated … they are not satisfied with how they are driving the ball … they want to match up, or even exceed, the distance achieved when a coach complimented another teammate that drove/pushed the ball farther …. and so they begin ‘experimenting’ … and it isn’t long before many target their energies towards the new feel of the prolonged contact period. They respond by modifying their swing to extend significantly more energy going through contact … and this action leads to a muscled/pushed action through contact. They send the TCB farther with their modified approach, receive positive feedback from the coach regarding the improved result from their efforts, and feel good about making perceived progress with their newly acquired faulty adjustments.

How is this any different from a clueless coach complimenting a hitter when they are wrongly perceived to be achieving success when using any other hitting aid/performing a drill improperly??? With the TCBs (baseball-sized, not softball-sized) you will be fine if you simply teach them to focus on maximizing bat speed PRIOR to contact.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

How is this any different from a clueless coach complimenting a hitter when they are wrongly perceived to be achieving success when using any other hitting aid/performing a drill improperly??? With the TCBs (baseball-sized, not softball-sized) you will be fine if you simply teach them to focus on maximizing bat speed PRIOR to contact.

Complimenting a player for using inferior mechanics is a bad idea in general .... imo anyway .... but it is something I've seen with a fairly high frequency with the use of TCB balls at various levels (12A - 18G). Like it or not, coaches are busy and not always paying attention to details, and will often compliment a result instead. The prolonged contact times associated with the TCB balls are significantly different than for normal balls ..... and it was my observation that many players used inferior mechanics in their attempts to optimize their performance when using them.

I do agree that the focus should be on maximizing bat speed and "releasing" through contact .... something I didn't see a lot of with kids using the TCB balls.