I dont believe anyone.

[Mike]

Thats not totally true. Goingdeep posted this video in another thread about the dropball but I did not want to hijack that thread. His quote was,

A peel drop has a shorter stride, weight's a little forward, wrist back and fingers pulled over the ball.

I am not trying to single him out, MANY people have the same opinion. He posted this video to support that claim.

You have to be quick with the play / pause but:
At 38 seconds she shows you the forward and downward lean but at 48 seconds she throws a full speed pitch and she is NOT leaning forward and down.

1 minute mark is laughable, because at 1:06 when she demonstrates she is leaning back and her hand is under or slightly inside of the ball.

At the 1:11 to 1:15 mark she demonstrates what you should do but she does not do this.

And she proves she does not do this again at the 1:19 mark. She is leaning back, hand is under the ball and the wrist is not cocked back.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LIVYiPfKjKU?feature=player_embedded" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Its like the Jennie Finch and the hello elbow video.

I would like some clarification please, If I am just not seeing this correctly I would love to know.

Next someone can explain to me how a right handed windmill pitcher can effectively get true curve ball spin.

 

[chinamigarden]

I don't know but she says that she is forward compared to her fastball, not forward compared to a centerline. I guess you would have to see her fastball to see if she is in fact more forward compared to that.

 

[halskinner]

No way would I EVER go out there with the intention of letting the hitter put the ball in play. Too many chances of an error on the infields part.

Guess that was why I would throw `10 rtiseballs to 1 drop.

 

[Mike]

I don't know but she says that she is forward compared to her fastball, not forward compared to a centerline. I guess you would have to see her fastball to see if she is in fact more forward compared to that.

No.
She gives a demonstration of the forward lean and hand position, but does not do that when she actually pitches. Its as obvious as the video she posted.

you pull the front leg down early (rather than extending long) to get weight over front foot.

I wont argue that because I see pitchers actually do that. But she doesnt.

The wrist can be cocked slightly back at the back hip

As to the bold, no. I dont believe centrifiguel force will allow it with a succesful pitcher.

The fastball, your weight is behind the front foot (to the point you could easily step back on the other foot, and your arm finishes through more in front with a long follow through.

Agree

You can't get the RPM's off the tips of the fingers with a FB as you can running the length of the fingers with a peel drop.

That is a quote from goingdeep that makes alot of sense to me. Think of a yo-yo, will it spin faster if you wrap the string 1 time vs. if you wrap the string 15 times?

(the goingdeep quote was taken out of context, I just thought it made some sense)

 

[Steve Huff]

Thats not totally true. Goingdeep posted this video in another thread about the dropball but I did not want to hijack that thread. His quote was,

I am not trying to single him out, MANY people have the same opinion. He posted this video to support that claim.
You have to be quick with the play / pause but:
At 38 seconds she shows you the forward and downward lean but at 48 seconds she throws a full speed pitch and she is NOT leaning forward and down.

1 minute mark is laughable, because at 1:06 when she demonstrates she is leaning back and her hand is under or slightly inside of the ball.

At the 1:11 to 1:15 mark she demonstrates what you should do but she does not do this.

And she proves she does not do this again at the 1:19 mark. She is leaning back, hand is under the ball and the wrist is not cocked back.

Its like the Jennie Finch and the hello elbow video.

I would like some clarification please, If I am just not seeing this correctly I would love to know.

Next someone can explain to me how a right handed windmill pitcher can effectively get true curve ball spin.

I don't agree with Screwball at all that this is a roll-over. On a roll-over the hand ends up down the thigh, or lower than the balls release point, not straight out. She never mentioned a roll-over. However, she isn't the videographer. There was probably a lot of video. Who says her voice and demonstration parts aren't mixed up? I don't know. Also Bill Hillhouse and others don't all throw the rise the same, especially body language. Jenny Finch throws a drop like a peel, then rolls her hand over well after the ball is gone. What is that all about? She is a good pitcher as I understand it. However, I am not impressed with the break in her drop-ball. I don't think it moves all that much better than a top-spin fastball.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I think the video shows a quick demonstration of how to's and how not to's. What most PC or instructors don't do is teach the individual. They run an assembly line through all day wanting to produce the same make and model even if it's a lemon. Because it would take hours of teaching, then hours of watching the teaching against live batters in real game situations, then more teaching over the mistakes and successes. And they are not going to do that for $50 in that hour session once or twice a week.

This is probably a "beginner" video and an introduction to a peel drop. Hence the more exaggerated leaning and wrist in the early example. Once you advance on the pitch you adapt the very very slight lean and very very shorter stride. If the angle of the video was more from the side you "might" see a tad bit more of the lean/less stride/wrist. Maybe???

You have to remember she has thrown 1000's of drops in her career and adapted her personal body mechanics to gain maximum spin and movement without sacrificing giving the pitch away. Many good pitchers are not good teachers.

 

[Mike]

Steve, Would you agree or disagree that on a roll over the fingers are simply "peeling" up on the seams and the forced follow through that ends up down at the thigh simply is the result of releasing the ball at a more downward angle?

I agree with the video mix, who knows. but at some point she is demonstrating her version of proper forward lean and hand position. And at another point she is pitching and it doesnt match up.

Thanks

 

[Mike]

Good point goingdeep, but crap is crap and and shouldnt be sold. (btw I am not trying to tear apart Amanda Scarborough, its just that video is the last example of poor instruction that I have seen)

There are pitching coaches and there are thieves. I have been asked to give lessons, charge money and I refuse. #1 because I dont feel I am qualilfied, and #2 you hit the nail on the head as to the assembly line. How do you give so many lessons and still have qualilty control?

I have only tought the fastball, change up and peel drop, and my students are few. I truely belive that is all you need to be successful. (substitute the peel for any other breaking pitch.......except a curve, I am still not buying that one.)

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Good point goingdeep, but crap is crap and and shouldnt be sold. (btw I am not trying to tear apart Amanda Scarborough, its just that video is the last example of poor instruction that I have seen)

There are pitching coaches and there are thieves. I have been asked to give lessons, charge money and I refuse. #1 because I dont feel I am qualilfied, and #2 you hit the nail on the head as to the assembly line. How do you give so many lessons and still have qualilty control?

I have only tought the fastball, change up and peel drop, and my students are few. I truely belive that is all you need to be successful. (substitute the peel for any other breaking pitch.......except a curve, I am still not buying that one.)

My friend, that's why I only "teach" my DD, I will assist if a DD or parent asks. But no money exchanges hands.

 

[Steve Huff]

Steve, Would you agree or disagree that on a roll over the fingers are simply "peeling" up on the seams and the forced follow through that ends up down at the thigh simply is the result of releasing the ball at a more downward angle?

I agree with the video mix, who knows. but at some point she is demonstrating her version of proper forward lean and hand position. And at another point she is pitching and it doesnt match up.

Thanks

I teach the roll-over instead of the peel for two specific reasons. Fist is that it is slower than the peel, and secondly it moves more. So I teach it more than any other breaking pitch. I teach it with more of a cupped wrist or hand than the rise-ball which should have a vertical in-line wrist. The entire fingers end up pointed over the top of the ball and the last digit touching the ball is the pinky. So it literally is like "turning a door knob", unlike a rise-ball where I think that term is over-used. Pitchers cheat! So they end up with more of a straight hand behind the ball, pull the fingers over, and snap the hand down. What is important is that the palm of the hand is facing the 3b line. This "cheating" as I mentioned results in a drop-curve action. I prefer it to bend straight down. So I can't say I agree or disagree with your analysis. I think it can be done both ways. But something isn't right about that video. But as I said before, I am not impressed with the break in this purported drop-ball. It should break 2 feet in the last 12 feet to the catcher if it is a roll-over.

These videos show fairly well a roll-over in the first two, a peel in the third video. You can see the difference in movement between the two also. This is Ernie Parker in the last two, who I learned from on the rise-ball and drop-ball just inadvertently running in to him at a practice in the LA area when he was coaching with Gordon's Panthers.

Teaching the Drop Ball in Softball - with Stephanie VanBrakle - YouTube
Fastpitch Softball Quick Tip # 318 - YouTube
Fastpitch Softball Quick Tip # 327 - YouTube