I dont believe anyone.

[Steve Huff]

Steve,


I am going through that in slo mo and it seems if that was possible my hand would block the ball and fall straight to the ground, haha.

Does the ball, KIND OF, come out of the back of the hand?



Isnt the ball long gone before any of this can have an effect on ball spin? I am not trying to argue I am trying to understand the teaching points.

I hate the angle of the first video but by the time her hand rolls over, the ball seems well on its way........the fingers peeling up on the ball created the spin........the forward lean and slightly early release and roll over follow through seem to impart a more downward angle...................Angle, magnus effect and gravity work together to make the ball drop quicker than normal.

Peel is thrown faster and speed works against gravity and magnus effect, the only thing you can really tweek is the angle of the peel.

With a "roll over" you also have a change up and a breaking pitch all in one.

Yes, out of the back of the hand after the hand has completely rolled over, and off the pinky! Your hand is still moving toward the plate when you roll the hand over. It is gone, when the hand stops. But it is why it is thrown slower than a peel. If you go to my Facebook page and look at my photos, I have a section called Softball. I posted photos of the roll-over drop there for Stella Turrazi of Italy because she throws everything hard other kids reference it now too. Look for the word "DROP" because the first part is about fastball rotation problems. Watch Ernie Parker's student throw it. Watch VanBrackle throw it in the videos I provided.

Here is my facebook link: Facebook

 

[Steve Huff]

Steve, I am going through that in slo mo and it seems if that was possible my hand would block the ball and fall straight to the ground, haha.

Does the ball, KIND OF, come out of the back of the hand?

Isnt the ball long gone before any of this can have an effect on ball spin? I am not trying to argue I am trying to understand the teaching points.

I hate the angle of the first video but by the time her hand rolls over, the ball seems well on its way........

I am not sure about VanBrakle's drop. Her hand finishes rather early in MHO. But it drops ok. I have seen a more explosive drop, but you have to admit, she is right on that string every pitch! That was her bread and butter in college. How do you guys watch slow motion videos on a computer?

With a "roll over" you also have a change up and a breaking pitch all in one.

And yes, that is why I like the roll-over, because it typically is thrown about 3-4mph slower than a power pitch, goes down, and when the hitter is out in front a little, the bat is already rising back up to the shoulder finish.

I just saw the full VanBrakle video. And you are absolutely correct. She is not throwing it like Ernie Parker or I teach. She is throwing it like Jenny Finch! It is just a peel drop with some whacky finish on the end. Thanks for pointing that out. Now I know what you meant when you said you were watching it in slow motion. I didn't get that far into the video. I should never have posted her video. Now the second one shows the true sequence of a roll-over. She is a student, but I doubt it was her first day throwing the pitch. Notice her hand orientation at the finish, and compare it with my facebook photos. I must say that her mechanics are very good for what I teach. But if you notice her stride and front leg stand, that is not the same as what Hillhouse would teach. So this is one of the areas where we are not similar.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DU4xc70qPgI&feature=relmfu

Ernie is showing the "bucket drill" here, but I combine both the string drill and bucket drill. Note, that I put the string at the top of the knees, not bottom. The harder the pitcher throws, the farther away the string is placed from the plate. At 55mph, I place the string at about 10-11 feet from the back corner of the plate. At 60mph, 12 feet.

 

[Steve Huff]

Mike my DD is a lefty. So her screw is your RH pitchers curve. Mine throws a drop screw, not many do. But you will see lots of drop curves.

Where the seams are closest on the ball. Middle finger and ring finger rest on the outside of the seams ( seams on her left side / fingers on the right side ) turn the knob with the middle finger supplying most of the pressure down and around to create a 4 to 10 clock rotation.

But remember my example is for LH. Just opposite for RH. There are different screw/curve grips, this is just what works best for mine through trial and error.

All very correct! Not that you need my input, just got your back!

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I don't know. He is not a friend, though I consider him one . He was nice to me and helped me, but I never met him again. I never even saw him at 18U tournaments with the Panthers. I know his Memphis facility was northeast of Memphis, but a lot of people try to escape Memphis. I would like to know if you find out. I come through Memphis several times a year. He is a kind ole man.

He was working in our Premier baseball facility Dullins GameDay. Million dollar complex, but they had him giving lessons in an old back room with no air. Kinda pissed me off and I told Tim that to his face. I heard he found a new home in Southhaven MS, nice new accommodations. I need to go by and see him, just haven't had the time. We have sat on my tailgate and talked for hours, best free lessons I ever got for my DD. Who knew I would ever have the chance to talk one on one with the best PC of all time.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

All very correct! Not that you need my input, just got your back!

Steve, I have enjoyed your threads and posts. I been in the diamond game a long time and can filter through the idiots, the BS, the want to be's and the never will be's. You have the background, you know what you're talking about, and you think out of the box. All are admired traits in this strategic game.

 

[Mike]

Sparky says his curve spins 8-2 over the top

Steve says his curve spins 430 to 1030 over the top

Someone is right and someone is wrong. The magnus effect creates an air pocket on one side of the ball.

I am not a scientist but IME from the view from the pitcher........6-12 over the top rotation buts an air pocket underneath the ball?
tilt that to the right and you have 8-2 over the top rotation and the air pocket is more on the left side of the ball?
the path of least resistance would make the ball move toward a LH batter? right?

430 to 1030 over the top spin will put an air pocket more on the right side of the ball thus making it move toward a RH batter?


This is why I dont charge and only teach fastball, change, and peel drop.

 

[Mike]

Yes, out of the back of the hand after the hand has completely rolled over, and off the pinky!

Thank you.
I agree with both you and goingdeep in regards to each of your many posts.

 

[Steve Huff]

He was working in our Premier baseball facility Dullins GameDay. Million dollar complex, but they had him giving lessons in an old back room with no air. Kinda pissed me off and I told Tim that to his face. I heard he found a new home in Southhaven MS, nice new accommodations. I need to go by and see him, just haven't had the time. We have sat on my tailgate and talked for hours, best free lessons I ever got for my DD. Who knew I would ever have the chance to talk one on one with the best PC of all time.

Yep! He would never remember me. I was just an 18U coach at the time. I just asked some questions and I never saw him check his watch or my wallet! He just loves the game and the kids. And he was good to the kids. Your lucky!

Just read your next post, and thanks!

 

[Mike]

I cock my wrist and hand in all kinds of positions down the circle to make different pitches

I will take your word for it.

Who cares or has time to nitpick a video frame by frame

I care to. I cant see the finer points at full speed, it helps me learn.

 

[Steve Huff]

Sparky says his curve spins 8-2 over the top

Steve says his curve spins 430 to 1030 over the top

Someone is right and someone is wrong. The magnus effect creates an air pocket on one side of the ball.

I am not a scientist but IME from the view from the pitcher........6-12 over the top rotation buts an air pocket underneath the ball?
tilt that to the right and you have 8-2 over the top rotation and the air pocket is more on the left side of the ball?
the path of least resistance would make the ball move toward a LH batter? right?

430 to 1030 over the top spin will put an air pocket more on the right side of the ball thus making it move toward a RH batter?


This is why I dont charge and only teach fastball, change, and peel drop.

One is talking pitcher view, and one is talking catcher view. Both insinuate top spin. Wasn't Sparky's pitcher left-handed? If you reversed his numbers if it is left handed, it would be 10-4 spin. (But that is a poor rise-ball spin) So instead, that would also be from the catcher's view with top spin. From the pitchers view, it would be 4-10. Now I say 04:30-10:30, or if my release is a little early, 10:29! Just kidding. But the spin is the same just view of the pitcher or catcher.

It is just top spin with an angle, causing it to break down and away from RH batters in my case, in on RH batters in his case. No discrepancy.