Ok...i am curious…as I am out of throwing for a week or so. Pulled my neck/shoulder trying to throw like Escobedo…to feel what she feels. I hope she doesn't feel what i feel! I know…. stupid…and yes…age appropriate throwing should be a requirement for daddies of ...uh..my age! I actually feel it in my low back today too. It reminds me that during the college world series…they would show her in the dugout and someone would be massaging her traps.
One thing about the "model thread" is there are a lot of models! And a lot of different things going on. While body type plays a role …so does athletic ability…they aren't the sole criteria…to just say this is good/useful/significant or this is bad/not useful/insignificant…because so & so does or doesn't do it. We hear about arm whip, striding, winging the glove arm ect…but little about the spine/trunk, neck, head as it relates to the shoulder.
I have been here before mentally ....and have been re-thinking the shoulder complex in an attempt to find a more IDEAL.... "free flowing shoulder" and "strong finish" and what all could affect it. When i first posted my dd…i think it was sluggers or BoardMember….who mentioned "contracting" and i have looked at it from a slightly different perspective than i do now. Recently lhowser commented about Easing the shoulder….Abbygale made a good point in another post that if the weight is on back leg, the shoulder has more restriction…which i could feel. Anyway...all this has led me to re-consider the whole shoulder restriction/strength/tension/relaxed thing.
Would like some input on your thoughts… on the trunk/neck/head/shoulders aspects of pitching that leds to a IDEAL armwhip and finishing the pitch...in your opinion.
Seems to me there are 3 Types of Contraction after leaping …. to finish.
1. One is an EXTENSION CONTRACTION of the TRUNK: ie…Canion (violent neck extension) & Finch: Spine is in extension, Shoulders stay level to throwing side to slightly lower, shoulders are retracted at least till release, Neck is in extension, Head tilt up…they seem to be extending and depressing shoulders into release.
2. Second is a more FLEXED CONTRACTION of trunk (or maybe a better description is…resistance to extension): ie…Ueno, Pauly, Cat, Scarborough: Spine is more upright to flexed, Shoulders also level to slightly lower….Shoulders more protracted at release…Neck has some flexion but is not exaggerated…head is more level through out the move and finish. They seem to be more flexed and depressing shoulders into finish.
Its interesting that Cat seems to make a conscious effort to flex the head/neck during the leap…and the others in this group...are so "level headed" that it seems they purposefully do this. However i do wonder if Cat does that to keep her from leaping higher or if it was to counter extension.
BTW...i think Hillhouse is more towards #2 than #1 from what I can tell. He doesn't tilt head back as far but does some....and doesn't extend neck as much as Finch ect. Maybe the ideal situation if somewhere in between #1 and #2? Yes? No? Maybe so?
3. Third one more LATERAL FLEXION CONTRACTION is involved: ie…Escobedo…Tincher: Don't even want to talk about this one…its simply bad…at least for an ol man…..but Spine goes into more left lateral flexion, Shoulders tilted towards stride side, Neck/Head extends.
I would say all of them go into shoulder depression into release on both sides of the body. And I will say all of them when leaping and are NOT weight bearing...have the lower back extensors firing with some anterior tilt of the pelvis...so the tendency would be to extend the spine imo.
What are your thoughts…. to head/neck/trunk positions and the resulting flexibiliy/strength or functionality of the shoulders?
… in finishing a pitch with a good armwhip or setting up the body for the best foundation of a good armwhip.
Which does your dd do? Which do you do/teach?
Which would you model or recommend... and why?
One thing about the "model thread" is there are a lot of models! And a lot of different things going on. While body type plays a role …so does athletic ability…they aren't the sole criteria…to just say this is good/useful/significant or this is bad/not useful/insignificant…because so & so does or doesn't do it. We hear about arm whip, striding, winging the glove arm ect…but little about the spine/trunk, neck, head as it relates to the shoulder.
I have been here before mentally ....and have been re-thinking the shoulder complex in an attempt to find a more IDEAL.... "free flowing shoulder" and "strong finish" and what all could affect it. When i first posted my dd…i think it was sluggers or BoardMember….who mentioned "contracting" and i have looked at it from a slightly different perspective than i do now. Recently lhowser commented about Easing the shoulder….Abbygale made a good point in another post that if the weight is on back leg, the shoulder has more restriction…which i could feel. Anyway...all this has led me to re-consider the whole shoulder restriction/strength/tension/relaxed thing.
Would like some input on your thoughts… on the trunk/neck/head/shoulders aspects of pitching that leds to a IDEAL armwhip and finishing the pitch...in your opinion.
Seems to me there are 3 Types of Contraction after leaping …. to finish.
1. One is an EXTENSION CONTRACTION of the TRUNK: ie…Canion (violent neck extension) & Finch: Spine is in extension, Shoulders stay level to throwing side to slightly lower, shoulders are retracted at least till release, Neck is in extension, Head tilt up…they seem to be extending and depressing shoulders into release.
2. Second is a more FLEXED CONTRACTION of trunk (or maybe a better description is…resistance to extension): ie…Ueno, Pauly, Cat, Scarborough: Spine is more upright to flexed, Shoulders also level to slightly lower….Shoulders more protracted at release…Neck has some flexion but is not exaggerated…head is more level through out the move and finish. They seem to be more flexed and depressing shoulders into finish.
Its interesting that Cat seems to make a conscious effort to flex the head/neck during the leap…and the others in this group...are so "level headed" that it seems they purposefully do this. However i do wonder if Cat does that to keep her from leaping higher or if it was to counter extension.
BTW...i think Hillhouse is more towards #2 than #1 from what I can tell. He doesn't tilt head back as far but does some....and doesn't extend neck as much as Finch ect. Maybe the ideal situation if somewhere in between #1 and #2? Yes? No? Maybe so?
3. Third one more LATERAL FLEXION CONTRACTION is involved: ie…Escobedo…Tincher: Don't even want to talk about this one…its simply bad…at least for an ol man…..but Spine goes into more left lateral flexion, Shoulders tilted towards stride side, Neck/Head extends.
I would say all of them go into shoulder depression into release on both sides of the body. And I will say all of them when leaping and are NOT weight bearing...have the lower back extensors firing with some anterior tilt of the pelvis...so the tendency would be to extend the spine imo.
What are your thoughts…. to head/neck/trunk positions and the resulting flexibiliy/strength or functionality of the shoulders?
… in finishing a pitch with a good armwhip or setting up the body for the best foundation of a good armwhip.
Which does your dd do? Which do you do/teach?
Which would you model or recommend... and why?