Gamemanship or Cheating?

[spleen1015]

What team are you with now, James? DD is a 2nd year 14u player. Wondering if we'll see you out there any where.

 

[coach james]

Card systems are much harder to pick, but when a catcher sets up 2 days too early and literally puts her mitt right where the ball is supposed to be and then holds it there for 15 seconds.... c'mom man!!! That's rec league crap and has no place in a schedule like the one we have planned. HC says "these are just kids"... I say they're young ladies that are preparing to win at life. (not just this game) In order to do that they must outsmart and outwork their competition at every opportunity. I'm trying to build college graduates, not future NPF players. Some call it Bush league... I call it game planning!

 

[robertc3]

Just to clarify, this is a 2nd year 14u, playing an A level schedule.
My ultimate goal is player development, however on game day, were there to win, and if we can gain an advantage in any way, should we not take it?

My question would be why do your priorities change based on the day of the week? Development M-F and winning on the weekends? Why not focus on development all the time?

 

[Sparky Guy]

My question would be why do your priorities change based on the day of the week? Development M-F and winning on the weekends? Why not focus on development all the time?

M-F is about teaching them the skills to play. The other days are about having them put those skills to use.

Because there is really no way to simulate what other teams are doing at a practice. Having them trying to pick signals keeps them involved in the game mentally. It makes them smarter ball players. It helps them anticipate better.

I did it with a 1st year 12U team last year. I would also have the pitchers and catchers who were not in the game next to me when calling pitches. I would ask them what they wanted to throw and why. I tried to get them to think 2+ pitches ahead.

 

[sluggers]

I try to give my teams the best opportunity to win.... Isn't that what coaching is?

Uh...No.

Coaching is helping the kids achieve their full potential as a player, learn sportsmanship, and develop as individuals.

If you can do that and win, great. Some coaches (Cannonball, e.g.) can do this and win.

All you do is prove that an adult is smarter than 12U, 14U or 16U player...which is not really difficult.

1. Picking opposing pitch calling and relaying that info in an inconspicuous way...

If you teach the kids how to look for "tells", then great. If you are doing it, then not good.

2. Having a base runner on 2nd and she relays where the catcher is setting up to the batter (in or out)

Completely acceptable. The *PLAYERS* are doing this, not the coach.

3. A coach deciphers opponents batting or base running signs and again relays info to his team in an inconspicuous way

Why?

Your C can't throw out a runner? Your 3B can't cover a bunt? Your SS does stay long enough in the 6 hole on a steal?

All you are doing is avoiding teaching the kids the necessary skills.

Also...it is a little stupid.

When I was younger and less tolerant, the other team deciphered my bunt sign...as if this were some kind of state secret. I figured out they had, and changed the indicator. Luckily, the batter missed the pitch, or 3B would have had her head taken off. Needless to say, they didn't try to pick the signs anymore.

But, again, what is the point? What are you doing this for? Your 3B can't

 

[mmeece]

Coming from a baseball background it is so foreign to me that this is even a question. Of course it is fine to do and part of the game. I've never even heard it questioned in baseball. No reason not to take advantage of what the opponent gives you.

 

[Yellowjacket]

General thoughts:
1). Teach the girls how to pickup tendencies/tells is completely acceptable in my opinion. This is part of the game that makes them a better player.
2). If the players are relaying info, They should however be very discrete.
3). I’m not a fan of adults stealing signs. It’s not very difficult and does not help the girls develop as players. In my opinion this actually hurts them.
4). If you are stealing signs and relaying catcher setups, you need to be ok with your players wearing a pitch. As this is the normal penalty at higher levels for getting caught

 

[Strike2]

Eh...at younger age groups, I think you're working too hard, and probably not focusing the players on right things. However, at older ages and higher competitive levels, nothing wrong with using what is right in front of you to your team's advantage. My DD's team recently had a game where the pitching signals were being stolen. She and her team mates recognized it, and worked around it. Problem solved...game won.

 

[Coach Foster]

We once brought in a team from a different part of the state to play for a weekend. We used a wristband number system to call pitches, and I guess someone told them that, so they had a dad sit in the dugout with a laptop and record every number we called for the first few innings. We had a ton of numbers, so we never called a sequence twice. We switched cards somewhere around the 3rd/4th and began to call repeat numbers. They we're so sure they had us, dad from the dugout yells out "fastball in, get ready". That previous fastball in, was now a change up out and the poor girl nearly screwed herself in the ground. Head coach walked over to dad and closed the laptop...

 

[_MIA_]

We once brought in a team from a different part of the state to play for a weekend. We used a wristband number system to call pitches, and I guess someone told them that, so they had a dad sit in the dugout with a laptop and record every number we called for the first few innings. We had a ton of numbers, so we never called a sequence twice. We switched cards somewhere around the 3rd/4th and began to call repeat numbers. They we're so sure they had us, dad from the dugout yells out "fastball in, get ready". That previous fastball in, was now a change up out and the poor girl nearly screwed herself in the ground. Head coach walked over to dad and closed the laptop...

Many moons ago when I played baseball in college catchers called their own game (does that happen anywhere nowadays outside of professional baseball?) so the only signs we would try and get would be bunt,steal, hit and run etc. We never had guys on second try and decipher catchers pitch calling but it is certainly
done.