Dumbing Down Rules for rec ball; does it equalize teams?

[Coach Al]

This has to do with a thread I started earlier.

We have all seen it, a rec league modifies rules to make weaker teams "competitive." The question is, does this really work? I'll give you some examples of this: no infield fly rule, no stealing, no drop third strike, no leaving the base until the ball is hit, an extra outfielder, once around the batting order, etc. We have all seen these in one form or another. Another question is what age should they be used til? 10u? 12u? Or even 14u? Now we all have opinions, but what in want is observations and facts. I need ammo to help persuade league officials that many of these restrictive rules do more harm than good.

 

[JC heir]

The only one of those rules I like in recis the 4th outfielder for 10s & 12s. I dont feel that is taking competitiveness away so much as getting 1 more girl off the bench & playing.

 

[ctfastpitch]

I personally don't like rule modifications that change the way the game is played like no stealing, no DTS, etc. Like JC I'm OK with an additional fielder since it gets another kid in the game. I can also see the need to keep games from getting out of hand for the younger ages, so things like limiting the number of batters per inning might make sense to prevent blowouts. That way the better team will prevail, just not by 30-1.

 

[amanda_cake]

We keep our fourth outfielder in 10U, 13U, and 16U. That's one thing that no one minds, because it is another girl playing. Our games are played on baseball fields (no softball fields in the county, just baseball) so there is a HUGE amount of outfield to cover. You really need that extra person with the larger fields. That is the only modification that we use, however.

 

[Bill Bollinger]

Most of the rule changes I believe in fact hurts the weaker teams. What I have seen that goes on in the rec system is people put rules in place that help their own team and sell it as somehow it is better for all.

Bill

 

[Coach Tom]

I think initially I was against it too but now I see some value, if done correctly. Gradually introducing rules that require more skill as the girl progresses through 10, 12, 14u levels makes sense for Rec leagues.

At the 10U age it should be about teaching the fundamentals and having fun. You want the girls to develop the skills but as important, develop the passion for the game so they stick with it. Drop third strike is ridiculous at this age because most of the girls can't consistently pitch, catch, and throw accurately enough to get anybody out in that situation. Same goes with stealing but what we've done is allowed stealing of 2nd and 3rd base but not at home. Also limit 1 base on a steal (meaning no advancing on overthrows). Similar rules around playing time and run limits should be in place. This aligns with gradually introducing the rules like stealing but doesn't make it a track race.

At 12U the concept of competition should have a greater emphasis, along with fundamentals and keeping it fun. Teams needs should to start to come before the individual needs so rules around mandatory playing time should be relaxed. Stealing should be allowed at all bases and no restrictions on advancing on overthrows. DTS is questionable to add at this level but depending on the quality of the rec league you can argue either side of it.

By 14u, the game should be played as any other softball game in HS or travel, albeit probably not at the same skill level. Kids should not be required to get x amount of innings in the infield and the idea of DTS is definitely part of the game. Run limits by inning may be the only twist that I can see acceptable. Kids at this age group should be ready to play in High School if they so choose (and of course if they possess the skills to do so).

A funny story that a parent relayed to me about this, his daughter made the high school freshman team, she was a career rec player with avg skills. She got home from her first game and told her dad she wants to quit because the coach didn't like her. THe dad asked why she felt this way and her answer was she didn't get to bat or play the field in the game. She said the rules are everyone is suppose to bat and play, therefore, she concluded, the coach must not like her because she didn't play the field or bat. This girl actually thought the rule required everyone to bat and play the field.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

This girl actually thought the rule required everyone to bat and play the field.

And there in lies the problem. I am OK with an extra outfielder, but I am not for dumbing down softball, if they are not doing it for baseball. If they can't play the game correctly, take a season and teach them the skills. Some one can get hurt really bad, if they don't have the skills to play the game.

 

[MVLA Softball]

Well stated Coach Tom. I am in complete agreement.
In response to the title of the thread, I believe the answer is easily reached. Yes, the rules regarding DTS and limited steals play a significant role in equalizing teams. For example, if a Rec League has "X" 10U teams and fewer than "X" qualified catchers, at least one team will be at a competitive disadvantage, if the nomal rules on stealing and DTS are applied.

I cannot help with ammo as to why the continuous batting order or a fourth outfielder at 10U or even 12U can do more harm than good. The Mission Statement of every Rec League should reflect the goal of providing players with an opportunity to participate in the sport. These two rules are consistent with the goal. And the two rules do not retard the development of the players, unless the focus is only upon the most skilled players, who might receive an extra at bat if the lesser skilled players were not allowed as many opportunites within the lineup.
When I coach a travel ball team, I have a responsibiity to a limited number of players and their families. While I no longer coach at the Rec Level, I do help in its administration. At the Rec level, I have a responisibility to the community.

 

[amanda_cake]

And there in lies the problem. I am OK with an extra outfielder, but I am not for dumbing down softball, if they are not doing it for baseball. If they can't play the game correctly, take a season and teach them the skills. Some one can get hurt really bad, if they don't have the skills to play the game.

What I want to know is how did she get to that level without knowing that it was only a rec league rule? As a Varsity softball player and 16U rec team player, I help with the younger kids (10U and 13U). I teach them things that we do in high school (such as the way we stand on the bag vs. standing on it the way some of our crazy old men want to teach them how to do) so they'll know stuff at a younger age. Of course, the age and rules are different, but we regularly discuss what will happen when they are older.

Also, does that rec association put out an All Star team? When playing All Stars, the girls are playing tournament ball where they aren't required to play every inning or bat. I can't believe that someone can get on a school team without having been on All Stars, that certainly isn't how it works around here.

 

[SoCalDad]

It took me 3 years on the board but I was able to gain consensus with my fellow board members that our restrictive local playing rules were hurting our players and not helping. We continue to tweak our rules after each season. This is a summary of our current local playing rules

8U: 4 runs per inning. No dropped third strike. No infield fly. Home plate is cold. One stolen base per pitch and no advance on overthrow. Also no advance on overthrow back to the pitcher if she is in the circle. For the first half of the season we have coach pitch on 4 balls. Second half of the season no coach pitch until bases are loaded and 4 balls.

10U: 4 runs per inning. First half of the season: No dropped third strike or infield fly and home plate is cold plus one stolen base per pitch and no advance on overthrow. Second half of the season all ASA rules are in effect.

12U: 6 runs per inning. All ASA rules in effect.

14U 6 runs per inning for first 3 innings. 4th inning+ no run limit. All ASA rules in effect.

Results of these changes:
4 years ago we fielded 1 all star team per division (4 total). Over 5 tournaments we won a total of 3 games. Our girls were simply outclassed on the field as our local playing rules were burned into their muscle memory. Simple things like running on an overthrow were not intuitive responses.

3 years ago when I started pushing for change we fielded 4 teams again but that year we sent our 14U team to state. Didn't win any games but they were competitive.

2 years ago our 10U and 14U teams went to state and our 10U team won a game (time for me to brag, my DD pitched that game).

Last year we sent all 4 divisions to state (8U played in an exhibition tournament). 10U won 2 games and 12U and 14U each won a game.

I attribute our improvement at state directly to the more competitive rules. Simply put our girls knew how to play at the tournament level because they played those rules every day. My 2 cents.