Dilemma with coach teaching HE (OP update)

[Ken B]

Yes, totally agree.

So is it still IR if there's no brush?
(not baiting you, genuine question)

Definitely. Taryne Mowatt, Kelly Barnhill and Carda are rare examples of incredible athletes who have worked tirelessly to achieve greatness without brush. It takes superhuman effort and genetics to achieve the control they have.

IR is an absolute. Brush is also an absolute, but studs and studdettes can achieve greatness without. That’s the top 3% of the best. For everyone else: good posture that results in brush, is a very worthwhile goal.

 

[Shiloh]

Definitely. Taryne Mowatt, Kelly Barnhill and Carda are rare examples of incredible athletes who have worked tirelessly to achieve greatness without brush. It takes superhuman effort and genetics to achieve the control they have.

IR is an absolute. Brush is also an absolute, but studs and studdettes can achieve greatness without. That’s the top 3% of the best. For everyone else: good posture that results in brush, is a very worthwhile goal.

Thanks. I will always associate IR with proper body mechanics. Bizarre otherwise....akin to a sub-mariner throwing a proper curve from 60’ - possible but really rare.

****

When Barnhill was stopped from replanting after years of getting away with it she became a much less effective pitcher - another reason she’s such an outlier.

Cheers.

 

[ArmWhip]

Lack of brush. Brush really helps with consistency.

I want to point out that baseball pitchers don't have any brush and they have the same control issues that softball pitchers have. Control is a very delicate thing and if brush interference was a causational factor then anything which affects brush would affect control. So if the pitcher puts on a long sleeved sweatshirt or a neoprene sleeve it will change the nature of her brush and should change where the ball goes in a consistent way and I don't see any sign of this cause and effect. Brush is a sign of sound mechanics but I don't see it as a determinate of control.

 

[texasck1]

Just bucket dad here trying to learn as much as I can, so this is just my thoughts. Brush is not just a sign of good mechanics. It is also a trigger to help the brain time release. A baseball pitcher releases a ball almost at the same level as his eyes. This provides a visual trigger for release and control of a pitch. Because a fastpitch pitcher is releasing the ball almost 2/3 the length of her body from her eyes, the visual trigger is not there. Therefore, the brush replaces the visual trigger with a physical trigger to help with consistency and accuracy.

Since DD went from HE to IR, accuracy has improved with each improvement in brush. I could be wrong, but that is how I see brush working as related to accuracy.

 

[Jeffrey]

Just bucket dad here trying to learn as much as I can, so this is just my thoughts. Brush is not just a sign of good mechanics. It is also a trigger to help the brain time release. A baseball pitcher releases a ball almost at the same level as his eyes. This provides a visual trigger for release and control of a pitch. Because a fastpitch pitcher is releasing the ball almost 2/3 the length of her body from her eyes, the visual trigger is not there. Therefore, the brush replaces the visual trigger with a physical trigger to help with consistency and accuracy.

Since DD went from HE to IR, accuracy has improved with each improvement in brush. I could be wrong, but that is how I see brush working as related to accuracy.

Yes...my DD took advantage of an injury a couple years ago to switch. Her response to learning brush was basically “wow, I don’t have to guess when to let go and it hits the same spot!”

 

[jdint]

Just bucket dad here trying to learn as much as I can, so this is just my thoughts. Brush is not just a sign of good mechanics. It is also a trigger to help the brain time release. A baseball pitcher releases a ball almost at the same level as his eyes. This provides a visual trigger for release and control of a pitch. Because a fastpitch pitcher is releasing the ball almost 2/3 the length of her body from her eyes, the visual trigger is not there. Therefore, the brush replaces the visual trigger with a physical trigger to help with consistency and accuracy.

Since DD went from HE to IR, accuracy has improved with each improvement in brush. I could be wrong, but that is how I see brush working as related to accuracy.

I would think this is somewhat dependent on whether the base baseball pitcher comes from over the top, 3/4 delivery or sidearm. There could still be a visual trigger I guess, unless the pitcher is Kent Tekulve.

Interesting topic. I've never thought about visual cues when throwing before. At least not as a trigger mechanism.

 

[ArmWhip]

Don't get me wrong, brush is essential, if you have good posture and IR you will brush.

 

[Nunthia1914]

HE isn't a style...it is wrong. No advanced pitcher at any age level throws that way. It is a dead end.

There is no middle ground...there is the right way to pitch and there is the wrong way. IR, FSR, Brush Interference, Leg drive. Do those 4 things, throw 100,000 pitches, and sprinkle in some athletic talent, and your DD will be a star.

The AC doesn't know what he is doing. Dad has to tell the coach not to bother her.

@Veryzer: Tell you what. Show the AC this video of Rachel Garcia and ask him how many times she "answers the phone". I'll give you $20.00 if you video his comments.

Rachel Garcia and Ally Carda in my opinion have poor pitching mechanics. Pitching mechanics have advanced much since then. I know since i have been coaching now for 35 years and finally got a handle on it. I'm 81 years old and I believe I can move the ball much better than Ally and Rachel. They may be good pitchers but pitching has changed since then and now the I/R total whip is done sideways then follow through

 

[Nunthia1914]

Here is main problem with Garcia. I don't see that she uses her hip much. Her back foot comes off the ground early before she can drive her hip
As for Carda she overstrides does not drag back toe and drops her right shoulder. If I can figure out how I will put myself pitching on this website and I know my form even though it could be better is superior to Carda and Garcia

 

[Nunthia1914]

There is no discovering I

DD just joined our town's 12u travel "B" team. She decided she wants to give pitching a try, so through this forum I discovered IR, and am thoroughly convinced it is the best approach to release and follow through. I've been working with her on it in our basement and I think we've made some headway. The problem is that the assistant coach (dad of the head coach) is telling her to "answer the phone" which is just a variant of HE. After telling her she was doing it wrong a couple of times today, she meekly told him that it's how her dad told her to do it. He said that's only for curves, and afterwards she started doing it his way. I and my two daughters are new to this organization and fairly new to softball, so I'm not sure how to handle this without sounding like a know-it-all or malcontent. I also don't want to put DD in a situation that's unfair to her. Should she just work on her catching during the pitchers and catchers session and just work on pitching with me?

(I think I've seen a thread discussing this but I couldn't find it in the search.)

There is no discovering I/R . The internal rotation is a must for whip action to take place across the body. The main problem in pitching is not staying open long enough to get the total whip action which uses guess what? I/R. I do total whip and forearm fire then push elbow out so the arm on follow through is fairly straight then no HE. HE only happens if you close early then the follow through will come up to the throwing shoulder which is not good for your shoulder.