Looks like drag with no replant or extra push to me. Cannot tell if he is leaping without seeing the toe drag, but looking at the rest of his body, I did not see any signs of a replant or extra push.
CrowHopping, Replanting, etc. - Not being called by Umps
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Looks like drag with no replant or extra push to me. Cannot tell if he is leaping without seeing the toe drag, but looking at the rest of his body, I did not see any signs of a replant or extra push.
- Jul 14, 2008
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On thing I look for in a replant-repush is a pause or diversion forward in the lead leg foot from it's otherwise perceived touch-down point. If the lead leg just continues to "FALL NORMALLY", how can there be an extra "push".........
Just sayin.........
Just sayin.........
Leap, no replant, no second push
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
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BM,
If you are trying to see if anyone can tell a replant is happening hy what the upper body doers, this could bge an effort in futlity.
A pitcher I played with and against from my area is a guy named SAteve Padilla. We called him "The Crow Hop King" He had the Crow Hop down to an art form.
He would have feet on the rubber and bring hishands together. THEN, his entire body froze like a statue and then, like magic, his body and pivot foot glided forward 2 to 3 feet and then he started his wind up. We all knew he had just crow hopped but nobody EVER saw any movement at all to prove what we knew happened. I am told he went on to compete in majors and even won the Pan Am gaes some years after I retired from pitching.
If a pitcher is very good at it, they will keep the ball in the glove until the pivot foot lanmds and replants.
Steve's crow hop happened VERY quickly, maybe MAYBE one full second.
Can you show the video of this pitcher from juist before the hands come together?
If you are trying to see if anyone can tell a replant is happening hy what the upper body doers, this could bge an effort in futlity.
A pitcher I played with and against from my area is a guy named SAteve Padilla. We called him "The Crow Hop King" He had the Crow Hop down to an art form.
He would have feet on the rubber and bring hishands together. THEN, his entire body froze like a statue and then, like magic, his body and pivot foot glided forward 2 to 3 feet and then he started his wind up. We all knew he had just crow hopped but nobody EVER saw any movement at all to prove what we knew happened. I am told he went on to compete in majors and even won the Pan Am gaes some years after I retired from pitching.
If a pitcher is very good at it, they will keep the ball in the glove until the pivot foot lanmds and replants.
Steve's crow hop happened VERY quickly, maybe MAYBE one full second.
Can you show the video of this pitcher from juist before the hands come together?
- Jul 14, 2008
- 1,796
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I don't have a current ASA rule book with me. Can anyone tell me if the rule book defines how/in which order the feet should firmly plant/accept weight after the initial push?
In other words, my question is, is it stated in the rule book as ILLEGAL for the pivot foot to become planted before the no-pivot foot becomes planted after the initial push?
Now to push this a little further. Before the initial push from the rubber........Isn't the stride leg foot usually "planted" aside/slightly behind the pivot foot on the rubber. How come when the stride leg foot hits the ground after the initial push........It's not called "replanting" the lead foot?.........
My point being.........Is the REPLANT the problem? Or is it ONLY THE POTENTIAL FOR RE-PUSH that creates a problem.......
RB asked for some critical thinking. I'm trying to give him what he asked for..........
In other words, my question is, is it stated in the rule book as ILLEGAL for the pivot foot to become planted before the no-pivot foot becomes planted after the initial push?
Now to push this a little further. Before the initial push from the rubber........Isn't the stride leg foot usually "planted" aside/slightly behind the pivot foot on the rubber. How come when the stride leg foot hits the ground after the initial push........It's not called "replanting" the lead foot?.........
My point being.........Is the REPLANT the problem? Or is it ONLY THE POTENTIAL FOR RE-PUSH that creates a problem.......
RB asked for some critical thinking. I'm trying to give him what he asked for..........
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- Jul 14, 2008
- 1,796
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No Hal, I'm trying to see if anyone can tell what the PIVOT FOOT IS ACTUALLY DOING TO THE MOTION, be it re-plant/re-push-no push, leap/re-push-no push, drag/re-push-no push etc. just from seeing what the rest of the body is doing, INCLUDING THE LEAD LEG, without seeing seeing the pivot foot.
Read my last post above and answer the question about the act of replanting REGARDLESS of re-pushing, to the best of your knowledge..........I.E. Is the pivot foot becoming weighted before the plant becomes weighted after the push, Illegal or not per the rule book........
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
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I have seen, a couple of times, where a coach tried in vain to prove to the blues that a second point of impetur *a second pivot pointz0 had indeed happened. Thier supposed evidence was the footprint of the pivot foot in the loose dirt in front of the circle. They claimed that because the toes of the pivot foot in the dirt footprint went a little deeper than the rest of the footprint, that proved force was used by that foot to push the body further forward.
The blues did not agree.
Gave all of us in the stands a good chuckl though.
The blues did not agree.
Gave all of us in the stands a good chuckl though.
halskinner
Banned
- May 7, 2008
- 2,637
- 0
Without seeing the pitch from start to finish, no, you cannot tell by ONLY what the upper body does.
Many, maybe most, crow hoppers I have seen, will have a bend forward at the waist before moving anything else. Not a huge bend but enough to bring the center of their body weight a little forward of the pivot point on the rubber. They will maintain that bend at the waist until the pivot foot touches down out in front. Then they straighten back up as the stride foot comes forward of that.
Can you tel;l what you are hoping to see and determine,,, Dont think so from the portion of the pitch we see.
You do realize we are teaching kids how to crow hop here.
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- Jul 14, 2008
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Again, my point goes MORE to the lead leg........It was you who said that a replant-repush usually involves a pause in the arm circle was it not? I don't see that here so many he does NOT replant? It was you who said that replant-repusher usually don't start the windup/arm circle until after the initial push wasn't it? I can tell you this guy starts his windup/circle normally.....Before the initial push from the rubber........
How can there exist a second push.......Or how can you prove a second push.......If the lead lead continues to fall naturally to the ground without pausing or being diverted forward from it's initial falling path downward..........
As far as us teaching a crow-hop to youth by discussing it.........Well that seems a little drama queen-ish to me........But I'm used to that from you.......
How can there exist a second push.......Or how can you prove a second push.......If the lead lead continues to fall naturally to the ground without pausing or being diverted forward from it's initial falling path downward..........
As far as us teaching a crow-hop to youth by discussing it.........Well that seems a little drama queen-ish to me........But I'm used to that from you.......
I predict that after boardmember removes the "blue line" there will still not be any consensus on what the pitcher is actually doing illegal... if anything. lol!
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