Bat Path

[Mudders Brudder]

I feel like we are/were not looking at the same thing at all. Its not for a move out or forward. Not sure where you got that from. When I say hip extension I mean the definition of hip extension that everyone uses. Not some other movement misinterpeted as hip extension.

Watch this video. This is hip extension isolated about as much as you can isolate it as a movement on your feet.




Edit for Synopsis: she's using her hips to swing her torso to swing whatever is in her hands.

OK cool, and this is going to be my last post wrt the subject, as regardless of reason(s), we appear to be seeing two completely different things when it comes to Freeman's swing that's been the only real point of contention, or differences of opinion wrt anything that's been said up to this point.

Yes, we've both agreed that "extension" (anatomically speaking) is the increasing of the angle of the joint, and that "flexion" is the decreasing of the angle...I'll not hyperlink you to those posts of agreement so as not to show any "condescension" in this post for Mr. Pitter Patter's sake...lol.

That said, I also agree that the kettlebell swinger you show here is showing dual hip extension when performing the swinging of the kettlebell from between her legs to as for forward and up as her arms and strength of swing will let her take it...

I see her projecting both her hips into the sagittal plane simultaneously, and as a result, increasing the angle in her hip joints bilaterally, and the resulting dual "hip extension" noted.

I still do not however, believe that Freddie is doing the same movement, and thusly is not showing dual hip extension when performing the swinging of the baseball bat....

I see him projecting his rear hip forward while simultaneously his lead hip is being pushed back rearward by the lead leg. As a result, the angle in his rear hip joint is increasing, while the angle on his lead hip joint is decreasing, and thusly, his hip joints are moving in opposite directions unilaterally, with one is "extending" while the other is "flexing" (the creases in his pant tell the story also...IMO).

This is also what I actually feel when placing my hands on the respective joints when emulating what I see both the kettlebell swinger and Freddie doing respectively, one with the same bilateral hip movement in the former and a unilateral movement difference in the latter, and why I believe what I believe.

So that's pretty much it. If you look at these two clips side-by-side...

...and believe that each is doing the same thing(s) with their hips respectively, well that's your opinion, and I simply disagree with it for the reasons stated, and just have a difference of opinion wrt them.

Not trying to say or prove that you're wrong, and I'm right...just that we both seem to have differing opinions, and others are welcome to form their own opinions as well wrt the two clips, and hips movements seen within them (and no, I'm not looking for a poll as to who believes what; really not interested, just enjoyed having the convo with "Bones").

Nonetheless, thanks for the discussion, and hope we can have more like them in the future. But for now, I'm pretty much done with this one....said all I can say, and there just ain't no more.

 

[Shawn]

I didn't make up the application of force on the handle. I only identified it more exactly.
Don't just Turn the barrel, torque it.
Maybe it should be ttH....torque the Handle......
Yes that my new acronym!.....and I have you to thank for prompting me think it through!
So now, every time you see ttH, you know you had a part in it.

ttH works for me!

 

[Shawn]

I see him projecting his rear hip forward into the sagittal plane, while simultaneously his lead hip is being pushed back rearward by the lead leg. As a result, the angle in his rear hip joint is increasing, while the angle on his lead hip joint is decreasing, and thusly, his hip joints are moving in opposite directions unilaterally, with one is "extending" while the other is "flexing"

I see the front hip in a flexion state and then extending. I don’t see it flexing. How is this flexing?

 

[Mudders Brudder]

Below is a pretty good article about what I have been posting about the last couple of days, please read it and tell me what you think.

Anyone else that has been following along or participated please read also and share your thoughts....

My take away is don’t coach out their natural tendencies aka don’t let the brain get in the way.

can learn walking cat no brain

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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My mind is never too fair from thinking about hitting, and a good conversation about it with folks all over wrt it. So today while I was trimming the Tri-Tip for dinner preparation, in doing so, this post and a couple others popped back into mind about their related content wrt fascia....and suddenly this little clip was born...

And there it is, the fascia of the tri-tip...sitting just below the fat layer I'd just cut off from on top of it, and on top of the muscle tissue lying just below. Just to note: I'd already cut a bunch of it off before it popped into my head what I was playing with, and why you don't see it covering some of the tissue further up, and the butcher had already trimmed much of it off below the patch I was tugging on.

So if you ever want to get a "feel" for what fascia is, where it sits in relation to the muscle, some of the properties it has, and possibly what it might be there for when Bessy was alive and still wandering through the field...grab yourself a tri-tip roast, and have at it. Between the layer fat and the muscle below...is the fascia you're looking/feeling for.

 

[_MIA_]

I'll not hyperlink you to those posts of agreement so as not to show any "condescension" in this post for Mr. Pitter Patter's sake...lol.

I am just jealous of your "mad skillz"..

 

[Bobby Shirer]

Makes no difference to me, knock your socks off... great informative response btw

Thank you. Your response was informative too.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

You said the swing I described lacked control and direction.
You're wrong.
Don't need brakes. The swing only takes .15 seconds, once started, it's an explosive movement. Light the match.
The softball swing should involve a bat. All this body control for the sake of body control is a waste of effort.
I still don't understand the need to organize the fascia or how that might actually be accomplished. Is it the same as organizing and controlling the bones?
Muscles accomplish this quite nicely and I can train them and make them strong so my movements are controlled and directed. Ligaments and tendons become stronger with focused muscle growth too.
I like the dragster analogy, They work best when they're tuned correctly and all the driver does is mash the gas. The best cars use the brakes to stop the car at the end of the strip, not after the start or halfway down the track.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

My mind is never too fair from thinking about hitting, and a good conversation about it with folks all over wrt it. So today while I was trimming the Tri-Tip for dinner preparation, in doing so, this post and a couple others popped back into mind about their related content wrt fascia....and suddenly this little clip was born...

And there it is, the fascia of the tri-tip...sitting just below the fat layer I'd just cut off from on top of it, and on top of the muscle tissue lying just below. Just to note: I'd already cut a bunch of it off before it popped into my head what I was playing with, and why you don't see it covering some of the tissue further up, and the butcher had already trimmed much of it off below the patch I was tugging on.

So if you ever want to get a "feel" for what fascia is, where it sits in relation to the muscle, some of the properties it has, and possibly what it might be there for when Bessy was alive and still wandering through the field...grab yourself a tri-tip roast, and have at it. Between the layer fat and the muscle below...is the fascia you're looking/feeling for.

Have you ever cooked a whole chicken. They have fascia too. I always refer to it as the "skin."

 

[Bobby Shirer]

OK cool, and this is going to be my last post wrt the subject, as regardless of reason(s), we appear to be seeing two completely different things when it comes to Freeman's swing that's been the only real point of contention, or differences of opinion wrt anything that's been said up to this point.

Yes, we've both agreed that "extension" (anatomically speaking) is the increasing of the angle of the joint, and that "flexion" is the decreasing of the angle...I'll not hyperlink you to those posts of agreement so as not to show any "condescension" in this post for Mr. Pitter Patter's sake...lol.

That said, I also agree that the kettlebell swinger you show here is showing dual hip extension when performing the swinging of the kettlebell from between her legs to as for forward and up as her arms and strength of swing will let her take it...

I see her projecting both her hips into the sagittal plane simultaneously, and as a result, increasing the angle in her hip joints bilaterally, and the resulting dual "hip extension" noted.

I still do not however, believe that Freddie is doing the same movement, and thusly is not showing dual hip extension when performing the swinging of the baseball bat....

I see him projecting his rear hip forward into the sagittal plane, while simultaneously his lead hip is being pushed back rearward by the lead leg. As a result, the angle in his rear hip joint is increasing, while the angle on his lead hip joint is decreasing, and thusly, his hip joints are moving in opposite directions unilaterally, with one is "extending" while the other is "flexing" (the creases in his pant tell the story also...IMO).

This is also what I actually feel when placing my hands on the respective joints when emulating what I see both the kettlebell swinger and Freddie doing respectively, one with the same bilateral hip movement in the former and a unilateral movement difference in the latter, and why I believe what I believe.

So that's pretty much it. If you look at these two clips side-by-side...

...and believe that each is doing the same thing(s) with their hips respectively, well that's your opinion, and I simply disagree with it for the reasons stated, and just have a difference of opinion wrt them.

Not trying to say or prove that you're wrong, and I'm right...just that we both seem to have differing opinions, and others are welcome to form their own opinions as well wrt the two clips, and hips movements seen within them (and no, I'm not looking for a poll as to who believes what; really not interested, just enjoyed having the convo with "Bones").

Nonetheless, thanks for the discussion, and hope we can have more like them in the future. But for now, I'm pretty much done with this one....said all I can say, and there just ain't no more.

Maybe a different viewing angle would help?

 

[Buttermaker]

You said the swing I described lacked control and direction.
You're wrong.
Don't need brakes. The swing only takes .15 seconds, once started, it's an explosive movement. Light the match.
The softball swing should involve a bat. All this body control for the sake of body control is a waste of effort.
I still don't understand the need to organize the fascia or how that might actually be accomplished. Is it the same as organizing and controlling the bones?
Muscles accomplish this quite nicely and I can train them and make them strong so my movements are controlled and directed. Ligaments and tendons become stronger with focused muscle growth too.
I like the dragster analogy, They work best when they're tuned correctly and all the driver does is mash the gas. The best cars use the brakes to stop the car at the end of the strip, not after the start or halfway down the track.

The swing is more like Nascar short track series. There is a straightway and a turn. Do you go all engine into the turn and hope the steering gets the job done or do you think the brakes are involved as well to help navigate the turn?