barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[Bobby Shirer]

I thought we already discussed how "up to speed early" is not necessarily equivalent to power e.g. high bat speed at contact. You can have to 2 hitters, one who gets up to speed early and one who doesn't and the one who doesn't can have a higher bat speed at contact.

What if the two batters achieve the same speed, one early and one later?
No difference.
But the one who attains early bat speed has more available time to further accelerate the barrel.

 

[Buttermaker]

Immediate effort only because the space of time is very short.
The effort is maximized when force is applied continuously to contact.
Acceleration is achieved through the application of force over time. Why not use all of the available time?

If I understand you then intentionally applying constant force would/could be problematic. Like I said before I don't feel any additional effort after the immediate torque.

 

[_MIA_]

What if the two batters achieve the same speed, one early and one later?
No difference.
But the one who attains early bat speed has more available time to further accelerate the barrel.

You want a barrel path/swing which has both a good time to contact and a good barrel velocity at contact. Maximizing one or the other will likely give suboptimal results.

 

[julray]

You are not understanding my point obviously.

TM has railed against people using batted ball metrics (exit velocity etc) as teaching aids so imo no when he is talking about getting up to speed early he is not talking about power...he is talking about getting the barrel velocity to be as fast as possible as early as possible in the swing...not at contact. Those can be two different goals.

FYI, the only reason I am discussing TM is that because imo you are not interpreting what he is saying correctly, not that I agree or disagree with him.

What does "up to speed" mean to you? Actually let me rephrase that.. what do you think TM means by "Up to speed". It's pretty clear cut and dry to me.. little room for misinterpretation.

 

[_MIA_]

. what do you think TM means by "Up to speed".

I just wrote it in what you quoted "he is talking about getting the barrel velocity to be as fast as possible as early as possible in the swing". I agree with this premise by the way. What I don't necessarily agree with, only because the data probably doesn't support it, is that no other forces are applied after launch. I would guess if you looked at the velocity profile of a HL swing there would be acceleration for a good portion of the barrel path which would necessitate that a force is being applied (unless you think gravity is the only thing doing this). This may be a feel vs. real sort of scenario...

 

[julray]

I just wrote it in what you quoted "he is talking about getting the barrel velocity to be as fast as possible as early as possible in the swing". I agree with this premise by the way. What I don't necessarily agree with, only because the data probably doesn't support it, is that no other forces are applied after launch. I would guess if you looked at the velocity profile of a HL swing there would be acceleration for a good portion of the barrel path which would necessitate that a force is being applied (unless you think gravity is the only thing doing this). This may be a feel vs. real sort of scenario...

I see it different.. up to speed to means your maxed out, top speed achieved. That's what TM is demoing

From HI "...They get their barrel up to speed instantly. Behind them."

 

[_MIA_]

I see it different.. up to speed to means your maxed out, top speed achieved. That's what TM is demoing

From HI "...They get their barrel up to speed instantly. Behind them."

How is that different than what I said? He wants the hitter's maximum barrel speed to be as early as possible NOT that he wants the hitter to try and maximize his barrel speed at contact...again those two things are different.
e.g.
(launch) 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 (contact)
vs
(launch) 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 (contact)

If the second hitter barrels up the ball it will go further, e.g. more power, but because it takes the hitter longer to get up to speed, his time to contact will be longer (ok you cannot know that based upon those numbers alone but just play along) and hence his read of the pitch won't be as good and hence the number of barrels will most likely be less...

 

[julray]

How is that different than what I said? The max part is related to where I said I disagreed. Am I speaking English?

Yeah I gotcha.. thought you were talking about a concept(is that no other forces are applied after launch ) in general, not one that TM supports. In the video specifically he says he's up to speed at the point where the barrel gets on plane with the pitch.

 

[_MIA_]

Yeah I gotcha.. thought you were talking about a concept(is that no other forces are applied after launch ) in general, not one that TM supports. In the video specifically he says he's up to speed at the point where the barrel gets on plane with the pitch.

I edited..read what I said with my example and see if that makes more sense.. The "numbers" for the best swing will lie somewhere between those two (totally made up for illustrative purposes ) barrel velocity profiles.

 

[julray]

I edited..read what I said with my example and see if that makes more sense..In order to get the first swing, you might have to sacrifice some barrel speed at contact. The best swing likely lies somewhere between those two swings...

I realize just arbitrary numbers at obituary points along swing path.. so in theory it makes sense, I agree. However, where do you believe launch occurs. That's why I specified "when the barrel is on plane with the ball".. that's when TM is saying he's already "up to speed" in that demo.