barrel/hand pivot point, a.k.a TTB

[Buttermaker]

He was a hip turner. Fixing his barrel path required his hips to stop rotating.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

It only happens if the core is torqued reactively, eccentric contraction. . The slack needs to be taken out through a neutral pelvis (n, s, e, w) and a leg anchor thereafter the obliques pull the pelvis up and pulls the back shoulder closer. Concentric contraction. Cross body move.

this is what was missing in JDMs minor league clip. He was giving up his anchor. Creating slack. The core couldn’t eccentrically contract on time. ABAF basically. Swinging ‘with’ not ‘against’. That’s why he couldn’t get his bat to go ‘up’ . TDS and Julray have pointed this out numerous times.

View attachment 17197

You need to clean that up..... eccentric contraction? So then we could have concentric extension?
Jumbo shrimp?

 

[Bobby Shirer]

He was a hip turner. Fixing his barrel path required his hips to stop rotating.

When do his hips stop turning? It appears to be after contact.

 

[Work=wins]

He was a hip turner. Fixing his barrel path required his hips to stop rotating.

he was a hip turner because he had no other leverage point. Just like you’re a barrel turner cause you have no other leverage point. your pattern is ABAB.

cause and effect.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

So since barrel/ hand pivot point is the subject of this thread...
What influence does torquing the handle vs using centripetal force created by the core have on swing quickness and overall barrel velocity?
It appears to me that a swing has bat lag is mostly reliant on centripetal force/rotational path. Whereas a swing with early bat speed actively torques the handle of the bat via lats and elbow slot becoming supination of the top hand.

I don't think they're mutually exclusive. Both exist in high level swings. Torquing the handle can happen early or late, or even throughout/mid swing.

I think hands/knob to ball, chopping swings don't take advantage of early barrel torquing/bat speed. The associated bat lag is actually a delay in barrel rotation waiting for centripetal force to create extension. The down to path is necessary to keep the distance short because of the delayed acceleration and to get the bat into the rotational plane.

The early barrel torquing/bat tipping allows a running start. The subsequent barrel rotating below the hands allows the barrel to stay in motion and get on an upward path with velocity early in the swing. It takes advantage of the force of gravity at the earliest critical moments when bat speed is the lowest and great force is needed to create acceleration.

Both systems initially create an angular force/torque on the handle.
The TTB swing continues the torque and path to the ball adding in centripetal force as the body rotates to the ball.
The DT swing only torques the handle to get the bat into the rotational plane and then relies entirely on rotating the core to create early bat speed/acceleration via extension due to centripetal force.

Edit:
The bat lag is caused by the Euler force. It is proportional to the mass of the bat and the acceleration of the bat. It dissipates as the bat's acceleration slows allowing the centripetal force to extend the barrel. This explains the need for "hands to ball/Down to" folks to decelerate/slow the rate of acceleration because that's how they create barrel extension. They need to stop accelerating the bat so the barrel will extend due to centripetal force. As long as they apply rotational/angular acceleration, they will stay in bat lag.
Early TTB applies torque to negate the Euler force and extends the barrel into the rotational plane without the need to slow rotational acceleration.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

he was a hip turner because he had no other leverage point. Just like you’re a barrel turner cause you have no other leverage point. your pattern is ABAB.

cause and effect.

Everybody leverages from the ground up. Try to leverage your core standing on a skateboard or on ice. No friction, no leverage. Just your body moving against itself.

 

[Work=wins]

Everybody leverages from the ground up. Try to leverage your core standing on a skateboard or on ice. No friction, no leverage. Just you body moving against itself.

not what I’m speaking of.

one legged leverages their hands . Hip turners leverage the hips. Elite guys leverage the middle of the body.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

not what I’m speaking of.

one legged leverages their hands . Hip turners leverage the hips. Elite guys leverage the middle of the body.

Leverages against what. For a lever to work you need a force, and object to move, and a fulcrum against which to apply the lever.

 

[Work=wins]

Leverages against what. For a lever to work you need a force, and object to move, and a fulcrum against which to apply the lever.

well, the ‘one leggers’ leverage their swings against their back hip, no adjustability. The ‘turners’ leverage their swings against their hip rotation, that’s why it’s loonnggg or slow or both. And the elite pattern leverages against the legs.

 

[Bobby Shirer]

well, the ‘one leggers’ leverage their swings against their back hip, no adjustability. The ‘turners’ leverage their swings against their hip rotation, that’s why it’s loonnggg or slow or both. And the elite pattern leverages against the legs.

But you said the elite guys leverage against the middle of the body?
So is it legs or middle of the body?