00 DD one year later....comments welcome

[Steve Huff]

Steve, I am amazed at the number of folks on here that can describe every aspect of the pitching motion but not know when someone is doing something right or wrong or even recognize the pitch thrown when they watch a video. Sometimes I think they can get too technical and miss the forest for the trees.

My gosh is seems so! When I see a hand reverse flip the ball at the plate and the elbow bends at release, rising high, palm facing the plate, and the pitch has a big arc in it, and someone calls it a drop ball, I just shake my head. Whether a ball moves or not, and the ball is cupped through the release, and the soft shoulder following the hand that is wrapping around the waist, and they debate what it is, I just shake my head. The funny thing is often they are doing it with good or near perfect form. It isn't that hard to see. Appreciate you bringing this up!

 

[BoardMember]

No, and you don't show the finishes, because if they are throwing curve-ball, as I have repeated myself again and again, it is necessary, and that elbow fade behind the back reduces the stress. The first Pauly video above appears to be a curve-ball. Finch video appears to be a curve-ball. Now if you can clip those videos, you can also show the finish. And if that Pauly video and Finch video aren't curve-balls, I would be surprised.

That Pauly video is the one YOU put up as one of your "10" who is palm up at 9:00.......The video title given to the video is "super slo mo single pitch".......I don't care if it's curve or not. The point is you say she's palm OUT at 9:00........When she is CLEARY palm UP at 9:00, as I've stated 100 times........

And this is my video of Jenny Finch NOT throwing curve.......And it's where my palm UP "clip" came from........NOT CURVE........And Palm up........So you're WRONG again........It's not curve.......

NO! You don't debate, you just post contrived videos; some legit, but too many contrived like the Michele Smith video and the Amanda Scarborough roll-over drop, etc. Debate my points if you are so smart and stop posting videos.

What's to debate?........Palm up at 9:00 is optimal?........I've already proven that......Or you calling video clips focusing in on the positions being discussed "contrived"........

Why do you keep saying "only Curve is palm up"?.......I've shown many different pitches that are palm up at 9:00........

On the left Smith is throwing drop according to her video, and flip change on the right.........Notice how much faster the drop reaches the catcher, and notice the shorter stride, forward lean/push down that keeps her on top of the drop.....And notice the short stride elicites a jump response.......From my studies on her flip change her arm finishes way out away from from the midline......

So far I haven't seen any points from you worth debating........

My point is show me something intellectual, not more videos.

Show you something intellectual?.........YOU'VE GOT TO TO BE KIDDING ME........What kind of comment is that?......

Did you even read this post?.......Or the TON of others like it I've already written in this thread???

You "say" you teach I/R.......Yet you advocate cutting off 1/2 of the I/R sequence of Humural and Radial/Ulnar internal rotation by preseting a "half closed" hand/ball position at 9:00.........Instead of taking full advantage of the fastest set of moving parts in the ENTIRE HUMAN BODY.........That's right Steve.....Radial/Ulnar rotation is THE FASTEST moving sequence in the human body.........And Internal Rotation is one of the most powerful........The human hand (you know the part that holds the ball) can go from palm back to palm front, or palm up to palm down faster then the human eye can see..........Yet you want to cut that source of power and rotation in 1/2?........For what reason?......

Because that's what someone told you and what you were taught?.......

Who can argue with that type of logic?........

I'm here to tell you that who ever told you that palm out at 9:00 was correct......Was Wrong........

Rise Ball velocity AND spin is enhanced when a FULL I/R Sequence is utilized.........

This is the key to how I/R is utilized to it's fullest advantage: The effectiveness and direction of spin is controled by WHEN/HOW THE BALL IS RELEASED during that FULL I/R SEQUENCE........

Putting the ball/hand into a half I/R sequence position because it's "easier" to time is like taking a 1/2 swing at a pitched ball because it's easier to hit that way.........That isn't how great hitters are created........Think about it.....

The hand SHOULD move from BACK to FRONT ALWAYS.......Even on Rise........Even on Screwgee......Even though we "feel" that we keep the hand "more open" or "more under" on these pitches......We don't......We create spin direction with timing and finger pressures at release.......

And cutting that sequence in 1/2 is ludacris.........Your "Palm out to palm forward" model is cutting the MAIN power/spin mechnism in 1/2, and sacrifices literally 1/2 of the generative power/spin in fastpitch softball...........

The ONLY TIME you want to cut that power sequence is on certain forms of "change up"......And because of exactly what the pitch is called, "change up", is why you'd want to cut the I/R sequence down from full to some to none.......

You can deny slo-motion video until your blue in the face Steve.........Facts are facts.........And they are VERIFYABLE facts through slo-motion video of the BEST IN THE WORLD.......

This is Bill Hillhouse demonstrating his "2 ball" rise drill.........He is palm to the sky down the entire back of the circle until he takes FULL ADVANTAGE of 100% of the I/R sequence (not 50% by being palm out at 9:00), and he uses the FULL I/R sequence to rotate his hand FULLY from back to front........EVEN ON RISE......

He controls spin direction by timing his release half way though the I/R Sequence at the PEAK of it's acceleration from back to front........He is using the FULL I/R sequence to his advantage to create AND enhance the spin.........

Break my two points!

And Break what 2 points?........You don't have 2 points that haven't been "broken" since we started this disgreement.......

About the Michele Smith video. What pitch is on the left? They are both changeups. However, they are not thrown the same. I have to grant you that fact. Why, I don't know. I can see the catcher's glove position and they are different. But you can post the whole video. Evidently Michele is trying to work out a consistent changeup.

What a bunch of hogwash...........These clip aren't from some "practice session" where's she trying to "figure out" change up........They are from her training video.......On the right she throws a flip change.....Her shoulder stays down and relaxed.........On the left her drop very similar to Ostermans......Shorter stride........Her shoulder lifts to enhance overspin on the back of the ball.......And she's forward at the waist to drive the downward direction of the pitch........AND IT DROPS.........And who's elbow doesn't break behind them on Drop?.......

You say you see her "flipping this ball" out the back of her hand on the left???.......Amazing.......

Ya I'm putting up MORE video again show folks how lost you really are..........

I suppose this is Ostermans change up eh?.......After all, she is doing basically the same thing as Smith....Smith is just more animated........Smith's change beats Osterman's drop to the plate???......You're dreaming fella........Smith throws harder then Osterman.........

I DON'T LIKE THE WALL DRILL.........It doesn't EMULATE what the best pitchers in the world do.........

Prove me wrong.........

 

[Steve Huff]

No it isn't a curve. It is a riseball. I have caught Michele Smith probably during 25-30 days. I have never seen her throw a drop like this. She throws a peel drop, but it never looked like that. Also, I don't know your frame speeds. But, the original Smith videos you took this from exist, so why don't you post the link?

I will tell you one thing. I think you are the most boring man I have ever seen. And I think I am the second most boring man anyone else has ever seen. I am not willing to play video games with you. The time I spend with you cheats me, my friends, and people I help. I can't let MY ego get wrapped up in this anymore. You can keep on making videos for your entertainment. My questions will never be answered.

 

[BoardMember]

Side view of an Osterman drop..........Or is that Smith???.....

Tell me something "intellectual" about this clip.........

NO MORE VIDEO!!! Believe me I get why.........

Steve, I am amazed at the number of folks on here that can describe every aspect of the pitching motion but not know when someone is doing something right or wrong or even recognize the pitch thrown when they watch a video. Sometimes I think they can get too technical and miss the forest for the trees. .

Or maybe we should let CoachFP have a turn "enlightening us" about recognizing a pitches......

 

[BoardMember]

If you want the links go find them..........I've already spent my hours combing the internet for clips a long time ago.........Because I actually care enough about my students to research what is reality what is isn't.......And what the best do vs. what they "think" they do.......Or what they "tell people" they "should" do........

See this? This is Nelson "explaining" the proper position for drop in one of her training videos......

Your kidding right?........

You can discount the Hanson Principle all you want...........But you aren't doing your kids any favors with that attitude.....

And once I make the animated files I delete the original videos.........They take up WAY TO MUCH hard drive space on the drive compared to animated gif files......

 

[sluggers]

Guys, guys, guys...please. No need to get nasty here. Time for everyone to move on to a different topic...