So by ASA staying at 40 and the rest at 43 do the good pitchers/teams move up to 16U or to USSSA and leave ASA 14U a B level calibur? Dont get me wrong im sure it wont be B calibur at nationals but will the good teams stay away from normal ASA 14u events and do something else?
ASA Code Changes for 2012 - Final
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- Jun 22, 2008
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I'm not aware of any HS program which uses age to classify their players by age.
An 11yo could be a 2nd year 14U player. If a 14yo is pitching for their HS team, it is quite possible they are already playing at a higher level than 14U
Again, rules and codes are for everyone, not just accommodating those who excel. If you dictated that all players stay within a specific range, then you can be more accommodating with stringent rules, but you want to hear complaints? The carrot chasers would never allow it.
soupy62 said:
ASA "B" has nothing to do with talent or calibur of play which is why collegiate players are permitted to play B ball.
I think i seen that you sit in on those meetings, is it ever discussed? The entire A vs B thing and that it should or shouldnt be policed? I agree with you there in some cases there is no difference, but i think the idea of B is to have a developmental type program for teams. I see that mens SP has A, B, C, D classes lol. Is that what JO is headed for?
- Jun 22, 2008
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Your perception is, unfortunately, correct. The B level is supposed to be for those who are not into the travel ball, but play in the local league. It is hard for some to accept, but not everyone who plays the game is chasing the carrot. However, many use or abuse, whichever way you look at it, to play down in what is perceived as a lower level of play.
It is somewhat like the perception of D-I vs, D-II, III, NAIA, etc. Not every player going to college places a priority on the softball, but maybe what the school they select has to offer. So to say that the D-I players are THE best may not be factual. Same with officials. They may not be the best, but the best available.
If you knew how screwed up this is, you would pray this never happens, though we all know it does at many local levels.
But to answer your original question, I don't hear that much talk about it. Sometimes I think it is treated like everyone's dirty little secret that everyone knows about, but pretends they don't
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=MTR;84904]
Grade level is determined by age as of Sept. 1. ASA level is determined by age as of Jan. 1. Girls born between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31 are a school year ahead of girls born beween Sept. 1 and Dec 31 during the same year.
Sounds like you are saying ASA realizes that ASA 14U is not a high enough level for the majority of 2nd year 14U girls eligable to play in it. Hence, my question about 16U and 13U age groups.
I never said anything about girls not being allowed to play up. But if you taylor the rules to make it so the majority want to play up though, are you not degrading the younger level? ASA is already heading toward a 13U level whether they want it or not. It's just a matter of whether they want to add it in with 12U, or leave it as a one year age group called 14U.
I think what soupy62 was refering to was the loss of quality 2nd year teams in ASA 14U by them staying at 40', because they will move to either 16U ASA or one of the other sanctions that plays at 43', leaving only the lower level "B" caliber teams in that age group. Which is the point of my post.
Grade level is determined by age as of Sept. 1. ASA level is determined by age as of Jan. 1. Girls born between Jan. 1 and Aug. 31 are a school year ahead of girls born beween Sept. 1 and Dec 31 during the same year.
Sounds like you are saying ASA realizes that ASA 14U is not a high enough level for the majority of 2nd year 14U girls eligable to play in it. Hence, my question about 16U and 13U age groups.
I never said anything about girls not being allowed to play up. But if you taylor the rules to make it so the majority want to play up though, are you not degrading the younger level? ASA is already heading toward a 13U level whether they want it or not. It's just a matter of whether they want to add it in with 12U, or leave it as a one year age group called 14U.
I think what soupy62 was refering to was the loss of quality 2nd year teams in ASA 14U by them staying at 40', because they will move to either 16U ASA or one of the other sanctions that plays at 43', leaving only the lower level "B" caliber teams in that age group. Which is the point of my post.
- Jun 22, 2008
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FPMark;84912=MTR;84904 said:
Okay, maybe where YOU are, not where I am and it is becoming obvious that I must continually repeat myself, these are for EVERYONE in the United States of America, not just those in areas where the game is addressed in different manners.
Really? You talked to all the players, parents and coaches and have determined that the majority of all players in their second year of 14U ball are playing HS? That must have been a long and tedious task.
As was noted in the meetings the last two years, and as I noted earlier, the 14U eligible players that are pitching at the HS level are not likely playing 14U. And again, these rules are based upon the age eligibility, and not on the reflection of what some children may do outside of that classification or ASA.
If you think the wider classifications will work, please right and submit the proposed change for endorsement by a voting council member. Please note, any change of this magnitude will not be available to be put into place until the 3rd year following the application of the new classes. Many of the arguments will include the size of all the tournaments involved in the championship process, the fairness of having a 12yo playing up competing against a 16yo at the national level, mandatory safety equipment for which cowardly parents demand specific rules be in place, etc. If such a broad change were to be offered, I would suggest restricting the players to their age groups, but that would bring on a slew of other complaints.
Personally, I couldn't care less, just answering your questions.
You may be heading to a 13U level, not ASA. There was a proposal this year going to the baseball-style age classifications of each age and under and in all the committee meetings I attended couldn't even get a motion for discussion. Now, there were some I did not get to this year and it could have been discussed, but no committee accepted it as a possible change and it was not challenged in General Council.
And again repeating, because of the "Keep-up-with-the-Jones'" mentality of the carrot chasers, those who are capable of pitching at 43' are already at the 16U level. God forbid Lil Suzie stay at 14U to complete full development of her strength and skills instead of rushing ahead so a coach can get an earlier look at her.
Do you think a college coach would rather see a pitcher strong on delivery and skill at 14U or one which can perform, but at an average level at the 16U? I would think the coaches would prefer the player long on strength and skill as that will carry to the next level.
From some with whom I and my colleagues have talked, many coaches have started looking for the diamonds in the rough at the 14U level. Once at the 16U, they have already got an idea as to where and on whom they are going to concentrate their efforts in recruiting. I think the word "recruiting" doesn't apply since today's process is more along the lines of the player, parents and coaches "selling" than coaches seeking.
Don't know where you are, but unless the school cutoff is before July 1, the majority of 2nd year 14U players are in HS. If they choose to play HS softball, they will be playing at 43', no matter if they play varsity, JV, or freshman.
Really? You talked to all the players, parents and coaches and have determined that the majority of all players in their second year of 14U ball are playing HS? That must have been a long and tedious task.
Not all players parents and coaches, mainly just the top ten coaches in 14U in Ga., although I have talked to alot of the parents also.
This is a blatant "slam" of the percieved talent level of ASA's 14U age bracket by ASA, not me, or anyone else.
You say it is unfair for a 12YO to play against a 16YO but whats to stop them from doing so now? Whats the difference, and what does it have to do with the discussion? Is ASA's purpose to cater to the carrot chasers by encouraging girls to play up? Maybe ASA is the one dangling the carrot. The last part of your arguement about girls staying at 14U for developement seems to completely contradict your statements that 14U girls playing HS should be playing "up" in 16U.
10U players pitch from 35' and have to move back 5' at 12U. No one seems to have a problem with it. But mention moving 14U back 3', and you start hearing all the bellyaching about how bad it is for the girls, how it could cause injuries, how it will give an unfair advantage to the hitter, and all kinds of other BS. Obviously ASA is not going to change the distance in 14U, like all the other associations have done, and it's been kind of a mystery to me as to the reasoning against it. Thank you for clearing it up for me. I never considered the possibility that ASA makes dangling "the carrot" a top priority.
- Jun 22, 2008
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I'm sort of curious if you know who "ASA" is. You talk as if it is some business group that passes down corporate decisions. It isn't U-trip, NSA or any other organization. Every move is discussed and voted on by numerous committees and eventually a council of over 200 members.
If it is a slam toward any group, IMO, it is the parent who buys into the carrot chasing by pushing their kids too fast. Many of the coaches are just as culpable and it is a shame.
At one time, many believed 14U was the best level of ball to work and watch as the players were still honing their skills and the parental animosity had yet to seep down to this level. Just not true anymore and I wonder why?
It can be done now, but how many will at this point with a level of play between the two ages? Your suggested classes would force the 12U to play the 16U because that will be dictated by the mentality which trends toward the belief of showing off their DD as the path to the carrot.
ASA doesn't encourage anyone to play up. If it wasn't for the chasers, it wouldn't happen as regular as it does.
No, I didn't say they "should", that would be something which you have dictated and that you have noted in this thread numerous times.
And yet it was the JO folks who were making these statements. Go figure, fickle parents and coaches!
Maybe that is because the other associations allow each team to dictate policy based upon money just like they do in their SP programs. Organization be damn, the money is king.
You keep talking your bull, maybe someday you will actually come to believe it. I'm done wasting keystrokes here.
Oh, BTW, I simply provided the already given answers to your questions that obviously, you just don't want to hear.
- Feb 8, 2009
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While I'd like to think ASA has good reasons for having the pitching distance at 14u stay at 40 ft., I can't help thinking they can't admit someone else thought of something first.
Talked to someone today who said that ASA is rumored to be changing their eligibility date the Sept 1st instead of Jan 1st. Any truth???
Sounds like poppy cock to me.
Sounds like poppy cock to me.
