Continuation Play

So I often wonder why coaches at the younger levels teach this. Girl on 3rd. Batter gets a walk and runs straight to 2nd. It works at 10U and most 12U levels but against good teams you're not going to get this given to you. So what is the point? Is it to beat up on lesser teams? You're going to have to stop when you get to 14U, because this turns into a double play and you look like an idiot as a coach when this happens to you. It's really not teaching the game, IMHO, if you cannot do this at the upper levels. We had it attempted against us once this weekend, and got the out at 2nd, but not home because of a hard tag by my SS.

Our last game was against a team that was doing this all weekend and running the scores up by 15+ runs. Fortunately my pitcher didn't allow any walks that game and he couldn't do it against us. This coach also had taught his girls to swing at strike 3 in the dirt and take off running to 1st for a DTK, and they were doing it all weekend. Again, is this type of coaching teaching the game of softball or playing for the win at younger levels? I just don't see the sense of it.

I look at it as a marathon and not a sprint. I am very, very adamant about teaching the fundamentals of the game and look at it as a marathon and not a sprint. It's not necessarily about now, but next year, the year after that and after that. Turn the girls into sound ball players while teaching the game.

Am I one of the few who looks at it this way, or am I a bit nuts?

We don't do it all the time, and usually only in a tie game situation. But if my 3rd base runner has some wheels and less than 2 outs the walked batter should advance to second and try to pull the play. And 3rd should score. If they don't go for it, then I have 2 runners in scoring position.

But I know what your talking about, all day everyday gets old.

There is a fine line between coaching and bush league coaching. I try to teach my girls to play the game, but sometimes with 2 even matched teams, the one with the best coaching wins.

shockcoach said:

Our last game was against a team that was doing this (continuation play) all weekend and running the scores up by 15+ runs. Fortunately my pitcher didn't allow any walks that game and he couldn't do it against us. I just don't see the sense of it.

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I agree that against a well coached team the continuation play can be a double play opportunity, but so can the 1st and 3rd situation on the next pitch. So the rationale is that your getting a 1st and 3rd offensive play without allowing the defense to plan ahead of time their defensive set against you. Plus instead of the defensive play involving your catcher throwing you have a pitcher throwing and on some teams the pitcher is a level below the rest of the team as a defender. Plus you don't have to give up a pitched strike on the batter as you would on a 1st and 3rd set play if you tell the batter to take to avoid the possibility of a pop-up Double Play. All that being said we don't attempt the continutaion offensively, just teach to defend against it.

This coach also had taught his girls to swing at strike 3 in the dirt and take off running to 1st for a DTK, and they were doing it all weekend. Again, is this type of coaching teaching the game of softball or playing for the win at younger levels?

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I would hope no one coaches swinging at a passed ball and running. I've joked about it, in fact on a wild first pitch I'll tell my kids to swing three times and run, but whenever my DD gets fooled by a change up in the dirt and ends up safe at first due to D3K I can guarantee she'll tell me she swung on purpose.

SnocatzDad said:

All that being said we don't attempt the continutaion offensively, just teach to defend against it.

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That's the way I am approaching it. We're getting close to putting a stop to it. We practice it 5-10 minutes every practice.

SnocatzDad said:

I would hope no one coaches swinging at a passed ball and running. I've joked about it, in fact on a wild first pitch I'll tell my kids to swing three times and run, but whenever my DD gets fooled by a change up in the dirt and ends up safe at first due to D3K I can guarantee she'll tell me she swung on purpose.

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I think we've all joked about it. I kid you not, though, that's what they were doing. However, my pitcher pitched a gem against them. 1 hit, 12k's and no BB's. That stopped their running attack in it's tracks.

I've always felt that coaches waste valuable practice time by teaching "trick plays" that will only work at lower levels of play. This is coaching to have a winning record as a coach - not coaching your kids to become better players - and hopefully to play well enough to win. Teach the kids agressive baserunning skills they can use forever instead.

When I was coaching LL baseball years ago, an opposing coach I knew pretty well had his catcher throw the ball to 1B after a walk, and had his 1B tag the runner when he got to 1B. It was time consuming, confused the opposition runners a little - it never got outs, they were just confused as to why they would do that. The reason he did it was more or less because it gave his players the impression that he knew more than other coaches ...

And plaease don't misunderstand - I have NO problem playing to win. It's a game and if you're keeping score, you SHOULD play to win - or why bother? But winning at all costs is much less fun than winning while respecting your opponents. And make no mistake - running to 2B on a walk continually is showing you have no respect for the defensive skills of your opponents.

There is a huge difference between taking advantage of the opposition's weaknesses thru fair play, and showing up the other team by highlighting their inabilities. IMHO the continuation play is no different than when you're comfortably ahead continuing to steal bases , take extra bases, bunt for hits, etc. I'm certainly not a proponent of telling players to stop trying - but you can back off the throttle a little.

Winning with dignity and a little humility is a skill that must be taught and learned - and if not done at early ages, it's much harder to teach. I always try to make my players understand that there is no better feeling than walking thru a line at the end of a game, and win or lose being able to feel mutual respect for and from your opponents. But winning is always a little more fun of course ...

Rocket Eagle said:

I've always felt that coaches waste valuable practice time by teaching "trick plays" that will only work at lower levels of play....

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So you've never seen the 'hidden ball' play in college or MLB? I'd hardly call that lower levels of play.

Trick plays have their time and place. I'm not a fan of using them every weekend. But if the opposing team sets me up a opportunity to win the game by my brains and not my brawn, that's their fault. Baseball and softball are strategic games, and sometimes you have to out think your opponent.

Some may go as far as to say the change up is a trick pitch. Same mechanics, just 75% speed of a FB. Same thing with breaking balls, your trying to 'trick' the batter. It's no different then trying to 'trick' the defense to make a error play.

GOINGDEEP said:

So you've never seen the 'hidden ball' play in college or MLB? I'd hardly call that lower levels of play.

Trick plays have their time and place. I'm not a fan of using them every weekend. But if the opposing team sets me up a opportunity to win the game by my brains and not my brawn, that's their fault. Baseball and softball are strategic games, and sometimes you have to out think your opponent.

Some may go as far as to say the change up is a trick pitch. Same mechanics, just 75% speed of a FB. Same thing with breaking balls, your trying to 'trick' the batter. It's no different then trying to 'trick' the defense to make a error play.

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I agree with Going deep. I guess I fail to distinguish the difference between a standard 1st and 3rd situation where you might tell the runner from 1st to get in a pickle to score the runner from 3rd and runnning the continuation play. IF you feel offensively you have a better chance with continuation than waiting for the next pitch and going then, there should be no shame or implied dishonor in attempting the play.

It's the exact same risk reward as a 1st and 3rd play. If it's defended perfectly they get two outs and no runs score. If it's defended well, they get one out and no run scores. If it's uncontested the runner advances, no run scores. If it's defended averagely they get one out and allow the run to score. If it's defended poorly no outs and the run scores.

SnocatzDad said:

.. If it's defended poorly no outs and the run scores.

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And when the ball is thrown really poorly both runs score. Yes I am still a bit bitter about Saturday's second game...