Errors vs hits in scoring

[CoachJD]

A few comments:

1. If the scorekeeper has nothing against your daughter, the ROEs will even out in time. Just bad luck for your DD

This isn't true. ROE is a repeatable skill. Or, more accurately, certain types of hitters ROE more often than others.

I don't see any real issue with this though. It's a stat like any other. It gives a piece of information, and it's not the fault of the stats that a lot of people don't know how to use them when evaluating players.

 

[uncdrew]

This isn't true. ROE is a repeatable skill. Or, more accurately, certain types of hitters ROE more often than others.

I don't see any real issue with this though. It's a stat like any other. It gives a piece of information, and it's not the fault of the stats that a lot of people don't know how to use them when evaluating players.

At higher levels and older ages I can see how girls that hit the ball harder have more ROEs.

In my experience at lower levels there's a lot of luck involved (who you're playing, who is playing the defensive position that makes the error, etc.) and thus it evens out. A huge hitter may hit such hot grounders that defenses screw them up and it's an ROE. Or, little Sally hits a ball to little Sue who makes an error because that's what she's good at. There's another ROE. I've even watched high school games where a team tries to hide their defensive weakness in RF but she makes two errors so they move her to LF and then the ball finds her there and she makes an error. These are the types of ROEs that should have been outs. I suppose every ROE should have been an out, but some are more E than others.

I might be mistaken, but I thought this thread was for a younger, less experienced team.

 

[cnardone]

I might be mistaken, but I thought this thread was for a younger, less experienced team.

14u

 

[erniekru]

info regarding errors according to The Official NCAA baseball and softball scoring guide..

***For clarity, edited to include "Errors would not be given in the following:"***

f. When a ball is hit with such force, so slowly or with erratic spin that it would require
more than ordinary effort to play the ball.

g. When a fly ball is misjudged and the fielder cannot recover in time to make the play.

h. When a fielder drops a ball after running a considerable distance or if she fails in her
attempt to catch the ball while running at a high rate of speed.

i. When a fielder drops a line drive after moving more than a few steps to catch the ball.

j. As a result of an illegal pitch, wild pitch, passed ball or hit batter, even if more than one
base is gained from the initial misplay.

k. When a runner advances on a dropped third strike. In such a case, a wild pitch or passed
ball shall be charged; however, if an accurate throw or proper catch would have result-
ed in an out, an error shall be charged to the appropriate player.

l. When a pitcher mishandles a sharply batted ball. Wild throws and the mishandling of
routine ground balls and bunts are reason for charging the pitcher with an error



There are more than a couple items in here that mom n pop scorekeepers don't know about. Also, keep in mind according to the definition, the fielder does not have to touch the ball to get an error (i.e. it goes through the legs)

 

[CoachCeetar]

There are more than a couple items in here that mom n pop scorekeepers don't know about. Also, keep in mind according to the definition, the fielder does not have to touch the ball to get an error (i.e. it goes through the legs)

including mom n pop coaches.

I'm curious when you start actually looking at any of the stats with any seriousness? I'm still 10u and it's mostly just for the sake of keeping (the runs) score, and maybe getting a sense of who's swinging vs walking and how many pitcher innings we've used.

In our 16 10u travel/fall games I've scored I have yet to assess an error, and everything else is just for the ease of moving the baserunners, so if the batter hits a dribbler and ends up at third it's a triple because that moves all the runners for me much easier than "advanced on throw" all over the place. But I don't think anyone but the coaches has access to the stats.

 

[erniekru]

including mom n pop coaches.

I'm curious when you start actually looking at any of the stats with any seriousness? I'm still 10u and it's mostly just for the sake of keeping (the runs) score, and maybe getting a sense of who's swinging vs walking and how many pitcher innings we've used.

In our 16 10u travel/fall games I've scored I have yet to assess an error, and everything else is just for the ease of moving the baserunners, so if the batter hits a dribbler and ends up at third it's a triple because that moves all the runners for me much easier than "advanced on throw" all over the place. But I don't think anyone but the coaches has access to the stats.

To determine how good a player is, stats are not the end all be all..

But as the players get to 2nd yr 14's and up, stats absolutely aid in recognition. There are Players of the Tourney, 1st Team, 2nd Team, rankings, HS awards etc which are all based on stats.

I don't think college coaches care one lick about stats, but they probably know a players name because of them.

 

[canyonjoe]

including mom n pop coaches.

I'm curious when you start actually looking at any of the stats with any seriousness? I'm still 10u and it's mostly just for the sake of keeping (the runs) score, and maybe getting a sense of who's swinging vs walking and how many pitcher innings we've used.

In our 16 10u travel/fall games I've scored I have yet to assess an error, and everything else is just for the ease of moving the baserunners, so if the batter hits a dribbler and ends up at third it's a triple because that moves all the runners for me much easier than "advanced on throw" all over the place. But I don't think anyone but the coaches has access to the stats.

Why even bother. I have no problem if you score in favor of the hitter on a 50-50 play but you can't give a triple to someone on a grounder and a 2 base error. If you aren't going to at least try and do it right just keep a book and make sure the right hitter is up.

 

[4Martini]

Why even bother. I have no problem if you score in favor of the hitter on a 50-50 play but you can't give a triple to someone on a grounder and a 2 base error. If you aren't going to at least try and do it right just keep a book and make sure the right hitter is up.

I’ll be honest- I did GameChanger like this when I had no clue- only because my daughter’s pitching coach wanted to know strike % and first pitch strike %. I did make it very well known I was doing a sub-par job and happy to hand it off to the first person who agreed strongly enough to do it themselves. Nobody ever did.

 

[CoachCeetar]

Why even bother. I have no problem if you score in favor of the hitter on a 50-50 play but you can't give a triple to someone on a grounder and a 2 base error.

If you aren't going to at least try and do it right just keep a book and make sure the right hitter is up.

That's what I'm doing? Keeping a book and making sure the right hitters are up. Keeping track of the score and the outs. Game timer. The correlation between any of the other stats and actual ability is virtual nil. Maybe I could be convinced (BIP - (K+BB)) roughly correlates, but even that's probably spotty.

None of us refer back to the game and think "oh, she hit a triple, must have crushed it".

 

[CoachJD]

I'm curious when you start actually looking at any of the stats with any seriousness? I'm still 10u and it's mostly just for the sake of keeping (the runs) score, and maybe getting a sense of who's swinging vs walking and how many pitcher innings we've used.

My HS bias might be showing here, but I'm not sure you should ever look at stats with any seriousness in travel unless maybe you're one one of the very top teams where everyone's going D1 and everyone they play against is going D1. Those might matter.

HS stats matter, though they're not usually useful indicators of talent. But they matter from a record-keeping standpoint. There is school (and perhaps league/conference, state, etc.) history involved. For that reason, I take the scorekeeping seriously. I also do not judge a player's actual ability based on such a small sample size with such a wide range of opponent talent levels.