Fielding % (like batting average except for the defense)

[radness]

Ok so what happened if a kid doesn't dive for the ball and doesn't get a glove on it at all. Is that an error? I am seriously confused how you can be a witness to the game for so long and be so out of touch on what is considered ordinary effort and what isn't. You are literally the only person I have ever heard have this opinion...that is what is confounding me.

Mr Pattar,
The questions were very simply put not sure why you're so confounded? But that's not my goal to determine why you are confounded LOL

It does appear that you don't recognize I am leading a conversation using different questions to bring out different feedback. post with purpose.

I find it hilarious that you recognize this discussion does involve opinion. It is not your opinion that sets the standard...
Lol, maybe that's why you're so confounded?!

 

[_MIA_]

Mr Pattar,
The questions were very simply put not sure why you're so confounded?

You are literally the only person I have ever heard have this opinion...that is what is confounding me.

 

[_MIA_]

Should I put up a poll asking the question whether diving for a ball, when necessary, is considered ordinary effort such that if the play is not made it is an error?

Again it isn't about what is expected in terms of what a player should be doing in terms of effort but instead about the expected outcome for the play for an average player at the given playing level..do you understand the difference? It is a difficult play and making the play regularly makes you an above average player..

 

[radness]

Should I put up a poll asking the question whether diving for a ball, when necessary, is considered ordinary

Sure Go For It!

Still leaves the observation of if it's necessary for one player it may not be necessary for another on the same team.

effort such that if the play is not made it is an error?

Yes I understand that, not trying to make a play voids the possibility of error. That can be the same without leaving feet.

Thank you for bringing up perspective and it was nice to have shared feedback to your perspective already

 

[_MIA_]

I simply commented that diving for the ball is ordinary effort on the field.

Why did you leave out my comment which explained to your the difference between what should be done in terms of effort and how to determine what is ordinary effort in order to give an error. Do you understand that part? Yes or no.

 

[radness]

For further chat room chatter for everyone

Discussion topic revolves around the words
'ordinary effort'

That includes opinion of the judgment of that effort.

Ordinary is not defined by an allocoted measurement of things like
feet on the ground, or distance traveled or speed of hustle. Or reaction time.

Example~
This is ordinary effort. This effort and range is to be expected.

However not all catchers are using the type of mechanics to be able to exhibit such range. It could be you have one catcher who has range and one who does not. How then do you determine wild pitch when one catcher can catch it and the other one can't?
(imo everything thrown at me is a play in progress regardless of how it's described)

Simply commenting that we have probably all seen certain players exhibit higher level of skills or better quality of skills like sprinting to get to the ball. Versus a cumbersome player on the field that does not have that agility to them.
How then to determine ordinary?
Is ordinary the same for all players?
AKA if one player on the same team can reach that ball and the other one can't what then?

Go dfp
thanks for the conversation
good stuff
enjoy

For example toward discussion~
I brought up excellent visual example of range. And since I know there are times when the catcher behind the plate has more range than another catcher. For one catcher their much further range is ordinary.

Could easily say a pitcher wants a particular catcher to catch for them because they don't get wild pitches. It's not because of the pitch location it's because of the performer behind the plate.

Which also brings up the Judgment of opinion if pitch is wild pitch or a passed ball?

Look forward to others sharing in the discussion

 

[nikkilugi]

The thing is if a player DIDN'T dive for it and let the ball go by it's not an error. Diving for a ball is always beyond the realm of ordinary effort as far as scoring goes - everywhere. You might want to disagree but just like everything else there is standard of which we have to apply scoring errors to. It applies to all players - you can't say "well that's Sis Bates and she should have made that pay so I'm giving her an error". That can't happen. I have been scorekeeper for my daughter's teams for a lot of years and if a catcher dives for a ball and doesn't catch it I'm not giving her an error because it is not. Hell, my daughter is 1B and there are a lot of times I'm pissed because she didn't make a pick out of the dirt on a throw or she didn't jump high enough to catch a ball over her head. I actually have been reminded by her coaches that I should NOT give her an error for that because that is NOT ordinary effort. You can have a higher standard for yourself but scorekeepers have to apply the standard across the board no matter if we are talking about a P5 phenom Olympic player or a freshie walk-on at Podunk U. (sorry if that's really a school).

 

[radness]

The thing is if a player DIDN'T dive for it and let the ball go by it's not an error. Diving for a ball is always beyond the realm of ordinary effort as far as scoring goes - everywhere. You might want to disagree but just like everything else there is standard of which we have to apply scoring errors to. It applies to all players - you can't say "well that's Sis Bates and she should have made that pay so I'm giving her an error". That can't happen. I have been scorekeeper for my daughter's teams for a lot of years and if a catcher dives for a ball and doesn't catch it I'm not giving her an error because it is not. Hell, my daughter is 1B and there are a lot of times I'm pissed because she didn't make a pick out of the dirt on a throw or she didn't jump high enough to catch a ball over her head. I actually have been reminded by her coaches that I should NOT give her an error for that because that is NOT ordinary effort. You can have a higher standard for yourself but scorekeepers have to apply the standard across the board no matter if we are talking about a P5 phenom Olympic player or a freshie walk-on at Podunk U. (sorry if that's really a school).

Good read!

Except for some players don't have to dive to finish the same play.
Even players on the same team.

 

[nikkilugi]

Good read!

Except for some players don't have to dive to finish the same play.
Even players on the same team.

Ok? Doesn't matter. Sure there are more athletic players than others but as scorekeepers we don't take that into account when making scoring decisions. Your expectations for players fall in the realm of coaching expectations. I'm sure there are a lot of times my daughters coach is pissed a player didn't make a play (wait I should say I KNOW there are a lot of times he is pissed they didn't make a play) that technically is not an error. It's just not an error but he will pull a player for another and that is perfectly fine. There ARE players who can make extraordinary plays look ordinary but the standard does not change for scorekeepers. It just doesn't.

 

[radness]

Sure there are more athletic players than others but as scorekeepers
*we don't take that into account when making scoring decisions.

Hmmm
think it does happen that scorekeepers do!

"If our other shortstop was playing there she would have had that' type of scenario