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[FiveFrameSwing]

This is my Launch:

This would be 'swing launch'. The barrel has yet to be 'released' ... ... ... 'launched'.

 

[Mudders Brudder]

This would be 'swing launch'. The barrel has yet to be 'released' ... ... ... 'launched'.

OK, since you're clarifying....

Is a "release" of something the same as a "launch" of something? I believe that they have two very significant differences in definition/meaning when it comes to what they imply wrt power/force application or not. I'll leave it at that for now, but I think you know where I'm going with it.

 

[FP26]

I can appreciate that, and I'm sure you know that I didn't expect you to answer for anyone, I was just responding to what you wrote as your views on the "hand centric" vs. "barrel centric" discussion/differences that have been going on way too long IMO. Sometimes I believe some like the arguments more than the learning or having a real discussion wrt them. JMO obviously...

100% agree with the bold above and the primary reason why I rarely post on any of these sites any more. I'm interested in learning and discussing, not arguing. If I want to argue with someone, I will go to work...

Understandable, and good point. I just look at it as in the split seconds that all of these things happen in...that a hitter thinks "GO" (launch), and then in a fraction of a second tries to slam on the brakes. Sometimes they're successful in stopping the speeding barrel, but many times they're not. I guess all I'm saying is that a hitter never "launches" tentatively, thinking that they may have to adjust or stop their swing somewhere down the line. Sure, there's the times where they're fooled, and basically just flip the bat/barrel at the ball, but the vast majority of the time they launch from the "launch position" with 100% intent of doing damage, and really nothing more or less than that.

No issues with any of this. Honestly "go" is a term I will use and it is in alignment with what you call launch. I just prefer to not use the term launch. However, I realize it is a necessary part of the forum speak.

I think the bold is the determinate. But I'd also say that any "flash" of the knob better happen as part of the TTB concept, and not any hand movement away from that initial "launch position"...as I read others writing say happens. Again, JMO...and what I've gathered from all of the "debates" that have gone on for way too long now.

Again, no disagreement with any of this. The 'flash' is part of the TTB concept. It is blended. Honestly when I have read the arguments on BBD, I really never even got the impression that there was hand movement associated with the flash. Just some peoples interpretation of it.

I don't believe that any of the "barrel centric" group believe the barrel reaches "max speed immediately at the beginning of its arc", but I am pretty sure that they believe that if you don't TTB immediately...that you'll never reach the max speed you're capable of w/o it.

Fine with this as well. Just as I believe some of the 'barrel centric' folks stretch things a little, this is a place where some of the 'hand centric' folks do the same thing. The old 'launch and spend' theory...

Well it's no secret that I'm "barrel centric" (really rear hip centric, but that's for another topic), but have come up with other things than just "TTB" in order to teach it. So to julray...no, TTB is not some "magic blue pill", but it is the basis of getting the barrel "behind and through" the ball, or getting the barrel to come "under and through" vs "over, and to" the ball...if you were wondering some of the other things/cues I use to teach the basic concept.

As you know "behind and through" is my phrase of choice. That is something I use consistently with all hitters I work with. And has been a common phrase my daughter uses as well. Honestly, while we talk about a lot of these things, neither of us use many of these terms. However, I was surprised to hear that while DD was hitting with some of the other college girls the other day, she actually used the phrase "drop the pig in the tornado". If I remember correctly that was actually a Boardmember phrase, but I could be wrong.

Truth be told, I have learned a lot on these sites. You have been a great help to me. As has FFS, Butter, rdbass, and others. I do appreciate the conversations we have had over the years.

LOL!! Sorry for the format of the post. I still have not gotten the hang of chopping posts to reply.

 

[Cannonball]

To me it really isn't a question of if TTB happens. It is more a discussion of when TTB happens. In my opinion there are really two different groups involved in this discussion.

The 'hand-centric' group (at least some of them...) will talk negatively of TTB and describe 'bopping the catcher in the head'. This is not what TTB is, in my opinion, but if it is not done properly, it can become that. I have seen hitters that I would classify as too 'one-legged'. They seem as though they are stuck on their back side trying to launch the barrel straight down at the ground behind them. This isn't what is meant by TTB, and really isn't even what is meant by turning the barrel 'rearward'.

On the other side, are the 'barrel-centric' folks. Some of them also tend to exaggerate what the hand-centric group is saying. Making comments about swinging out front, moving the knob down the length of the arms, or moving the knob to a certain location and then launching, implying that there are two completely separate motions. This is also inaccurate and is a misrepresentation.

When I first started reading on these sites, this was all confusing. Ultimately the best explanation I have seen was provided by Tewks in one of his blogs. He talked about swinging on the 'right side of your body' (or left side for a left handed hitter). The pictures below illustrate this. In my opinion this is what the 'hand-centric' and 'barrel-centric' folks are both after. Some will refer to it as 'deep whoosh'. Some are not in favor of that term. But ultimately, I think that is what most of us are looking for, just applying different terms to achieve it. Whether you feel that that the barrel needs to get to a certain place. Or you feel that the hands deliver the barrel to that place. Does it really matter? As long as you can convey the message to your hitters and they can understand and implement what Pujols is doing below, I think they are going to be fine.

Honestly, the theory of connection isn't too much different either. I know of some experts that teach that philosophy. And at least one "ex-expert" Again, this can be overbaked and done incorrectly. But when done correctly, it will also result in the images below.

Thanks for making me laugh tonight!

 

[Mudders Brudder]

As you know "behind and through" is my phrase of choice. That is something I use consistently with all hitters I work with. And has been a common phrase my daughter uses as well. Honestly, while we talk about a lot of these things, neither of us use many of these terms. However, I was surprised to hear that while DD was hitting with some of the other college girls the other day, she actually used the phrase "drop the pig in the tornado". If I remember correctly that was actually a Boardmember phrase, but I could be wrong.

Yes, that was BM's phrase, but if we're being honest....that's one phrase that I never understood no matter who I asked, how many I heard it, or how hard I tried to wrap my head around it to pertain to something wrt hitting a baseball/softball.

 

[FP26]

Yes, that was BM's phrase, but if we're being honest....that's one phrase that I never understood no matter who I asked, how many I heard it, or how hard I tried to wrap my head around it to pertain to something wrt hitting a baseball/softball.

Lol! I just see it as hips pulling the hands, or swinging behind a corner. And that's how DD sees it as well. Again, swinging on the 'right side of her body' as Tewks puts it.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I like the ball launching drill.. nice one

A lot of folks don't appreciate how early in the swing the bottom-hand finds the height of the ball.

 

[rdbass]

A lot of folks don't appreciate how early in the swing the bottom-hand finds the height of the ball.

Would you say that is where the hands are 'directing' the barrel/bat to the ball. After 'swing' launch.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Would you say that is where the hands are 'directing' the barrel/bat to the ball. After 'swing' launch.

I would say that what you are showing here is the beginning of the torso-engine.

They all look remarkable the same.

The 'out from' will be different ... and that largely comes from the hand/forearm-engine imo.

 

[FP26]

I would say that what you are showing here is the beginning of the torso-engine.

They all look remarkable the same.

The 'out from' will be different ... and that largely comes from the hand/forearm-engine imo.

You can already see some minor differences in my opinion. Focus on Miggy's front elbow on the bottom right and bottom middle gifs. He is already adjusting by that point.