The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[riseball]

When was the last time a college-level coach (D1 in fact) openly criticized why some pitchers openly cheating and getting away with it and some don't?
maybe this time what Mike White said openly to the press WILL make a difference.

unless of course, the powers-that-be will have their way and "why ruin a great story?"

That it was not just a college coach but Mike White speaks volumes regarding the gravity of the situation. No coach in the game is more credible when it comes to pitching.

 

[SoCalASABlue]

IMO the best way to do this is to gradually enforce these rules from the lower levels and work their way up. Strictly enforce it in travel ball/HS first then move on to college. Hopefully if they do this there would be very little need to
do it at the college level. For a college pitcher to change might be "easy" mechanically but would probably do a job on them mentally. If they all of sudden called it on Barnhill everytime in the Regionals what do think the outcome would be? Would she even be able to pitch? Not necessarily fair to somebody who was made to think it was ok to pitch a certain way for 10+ years to all of a sudden tell them they can't do it anymore. Not sure diluting the game at the highest level first is the best way to grow the game.

Why wait until travel ball to start calling IPs? Call them in rec ball. A lot easier then to correct it than in travel ball and HS when "she hasn't been called all year for that, blue".

Spent a lot on pitching instruction for DD (now retired after 2 years pitching college ball) to learn to pitch legally. I can count on 2 hands the number of times she was called for an IP from 8U to sophomore year in college - and it was almost always because she put her hands together and stepped on the rubber.

The fact that experienced pitchers can almost always pitch legally AFTER being called for an IP is an indication (at least to me) that they know they're pitching illegally and have probably been taught to do so "since it's almost always never called". Hell, look on YouTube. There's a lot of pitching instruction videos that openly stress leaping and such because umpires don't call it when they should.

And to end this diatribe, I sat through MANY umpire association meetings where we were told NOT to call IPs "because the league doesn't want us to". Full disclosure - I've only umpired up to the JC level but it was well known in all training I attended that umpires that become known as the "IP guy" don't get a lot of assignments. Not saying it's right - but it's reality.

 

[Dabears17]

I umpire 8u and 10u rec. In 8u rec I talk to the coach quietly in-between innings if someone is pitching illegally and tell them my strike zone is smaller on illegal pitches. If the girl definitely has potential I sometimes ask the coach to introduce me to the parents after the game.

In 10u I do something similar the first half of the season. 2nd half of the season pitcher gets a warning, then I'll call them.

Our local rules say the penalty for an IP is only a ball, so its easier to call.

 

[riseball]

If it is called at the highest level there will be an expectation for it to be called at the lower levels. If the NCAA takes the lead and vigorously enforces the rules, it will very quickly trickle down. The fact that it is not called at the highest level only serves as an excuse not to call it elsewhere. The vast majority want the rules of the game enforced. IME - The only ones which are in favor of giving in and dumbing down the game have a skippie they wish to protect and not hold accountable to follow the rules. It is all part of raising the entitlement generation complete with participation trophies.

 

[Gtrips07]

Could barnhill learn not to crow hop? Stay in the lane? Would she be as effective??

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[riseball]

Could barnhill learn not to crow hop? Stay in the lane? Would she be as effective??

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If she is truly all that and a bag of chips, she most certainly could.

 

[Gtrips07]

But is she that good or a product or the extra push?

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[Rocketech1]

Why wait until travel ball to start calling IPs? Call them in rec ball. A lot easier then to correct it than in travel ball and HS when "she hasn't been called all year for that, blue".

Spent a lot on pitching instruction for DD (now retired after 2 years pitching college ball) to learn to pitch legally. I can count on 2 hands the number of times she was called for an IP from 8U to sophomore year in college - and it was almost always because she put her hands together and stepped on the rubber.

The fact that experienced pitchers can almost always pitch legally AFTER being called for an IP is an indication (at least to me) that they know they're pitching illegally and have probably been taught to do so "since it's almost always never called". Hell, look on YouTube. There's a lot of pitching instruction videos that openly stress leaping and such because umpires don't call it when they should.

And to end this diatribe, I sat through MANY umpire association meetings where we were told NOT to call IPs "because the league doesn't want us to". Full disclosure - I've only umpired up to the JC level but it was well known in all training I attended that umpires that become known as the "IP guy" don't get a lot of assignments. Not saying it's right - but it's reality.

It's nice to hear an umpire's perspective. It brings up a good point of why is it so difficult for so many pitchers not to be in compliance that the umpire associations have to flat out tell umpires not to call the IP? They are not telling umpires not to call leaving base early or not to call slappers out for contacting the ball when out of the batters box? This is a problematic and complex problem in need of real review by the governing bodies.

 

[riseball]

Let's not confuse can't with won't. A truly elite level athlete does not do can't. It is not at all difficult for pitchers to be in compliance. If they have any athletic ability and put forth some effort it is quite easy. Even if they are poorly instructed with substandard mechanics with minimal work they can easily comply. It is not a physically difficult or complex task, it just requires a commitment to do so. Forcing pitchers to comply will serve to elevate the game as those who are truly unable or unwilling will go play soccer.

 

[schwabach]

Let's not confuse can't with won't. A truly elite level athlete does not do can't. It is not at all difficult for pitchers to be in compliance. If they have any athletic ability and put forth some effort it is quite easy. Even if they are poorly instructed with substandard mechanics with minimal work they can easily comply. It is not a physically difficult or complex task, it just requires a commitment to do so. Forcing pitchers to comply will serve to elevate the game as those who are truly unable or unwilling will go play soccer.

Riseball - what are some of the great pitchers from this year who pitch legally - Osorio? O'Toole? I'm just curious because I don't follow the pitchers closely enough to know which ones are generally legal.