The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[riseball]

To be clear, in order to pitch legally the pivot foot must bear weight after the initial push. The only way for this not to occur would be to leap.

I was trying to use the NCAA language regarding the pivot foot bearing weight:

10.4.6 Crow hopping is not allowed, The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

I was trying to get Bill's opinion, based on the NCAA rule if he thought her pivot foot was "bearing weight again".

I am with you, just wanted to point out the absurdity of wording of the NCAA rule. The presence of a drag mark is evidence of the pivot foot bearing weight.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

The presence of a drag mark is evidence of the pivot foot bearing weight.

Additionally in my experience 're-planters' tend to leave an additional divot or hole right where they replant. It's unmistakable when you see it.

Look at the first two gifs in this thread. The left chalk mark on the pitching lane. You can see where she is kicking it towards first base.

Just my observations...

 

[Hillhouse]

all i can say is that her drive foot is certainly landing on the ball of her foot, not on the side.
and if that bent knee pointing back isn't loading her leg for a second push, i dont' see what its for.
this looks so similar to ally carda

THIS picture makes it look like she lands on the ball of her foot. I don't see that from the other angles. Then again, maybe she does this for one pitch but not others? It's certainly not out of character for a great number of female pitchers to use different mechanics for different pitches. But, it's clear she is landing on the ball in this pic at this angle. So, i stand corrected. But... in saying that, I don't think this looks the same as the other angles.

Personally, I think this girl has sort of mastered the push, slide the foot until it lands before release. i don't know the legality of that if she stays in the slightest contact with the ground. In this clip, it looks like thats what she's trying to do. Obviously if she goes airborne people will cry bloody murder. But if she scoots it across the ground, barely touching it until the "replant", I don't know what that rule is in NCAA. I'd have to say it's legal if she's able to stay in contact with the ground.

It would take an umpire 30 seconds to walk over and see if there is one constant line from the drag, no matter how slim the line in the dirt is.

Bill

 

[knightsb]

I don't know what that rule is in NCAA. I'd have to say it's legal if she's able to stay in contact with the ground.

NCAA:
10.4.6 Crow hopping is not allowed, The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

I see a second push, and the the pivot foot bearing weight after it has lost contact with the pitcher's plate. Obviously, I'm in a minority with that opinion.

IMHO, this is illegal:

this is legal:

 

[FastPitchCat]

all i can say is that her drive foot is certainly landing on the ball of her foot, not on the side.
and if that bent knee pointing back isn't loading her leg for a second push, i dont' see what its for.
this looks so similar to ally carda

let me add that KB has tremendous overlap. she even delays her forward swing as her body drives forward.
as her foot plants, her pitching arm is at 11 and she really cranks it PALM UP! and coupled with that 2nd push, gets added velocity.

whoever coached her knew of her physical limitations and adapted her mechanics to achieve what shes doing now.
quite a feat but unfortunately, illegal. but she is quite an athlete.

 

[riseball]

..whoever coached her knew of her physical limitations and adapted her mechanics to achieve what shes doing now.
quite a feat but unfortunately, illegal. but she is quite an athlete.

Interesting theory, but I have a much different take on the coaching she has received. Regardless of the success she has attained pitching illegally since middle school, I think most pitching instructors see her as someone with great athletic ability who has overcome terrible instruction. She is a unicorn in a herd of zebras.

 

[FastPitchCat]

NCAA:
10.4.6 Crow hopping is not allowed, The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

I see a second push, and the the pivot foot bearing weight after it has lost contact with the pitcher's plate. Obviously, I'm in a minority with that opinion.


IMHO, this is illegal:

this is legal:

knight - i don't think you're a minority.

interesting to note. when pitching on the grass, her timing is sooooooo different.
at foot plant, her pitching arm is at 9 o'clock, the worst for speed. i know she's only demonstrating, but the timing is just so different compared to live play when her pitching arm is at 11 o'clock at foot plant.

 

[Swim Coach]

It would take an umpire 30 seconds to walk over and see if there is one constant line from the drag, no matter how slim the line in the dirt is.

Bill

Not to put words in his mouth but somewhere I think Riseball mentioned his DD pitched against her and said there was no drag marks at all when she came back out for her half of the innings. If I am wrong someone will surely correct me. I am getting old, but I don't think I dreamed that one up.

 

[riseball]

NCAA:
10.4.6 Crow hopping is not allowed, The pitcher may not replant, gain a second starting point and push off her pivot foot. Once having lost contact with the pitcher’s plate, the pivot foot may trail on the ground but may not bear weight again until the pitch is released.

I see a second push, and the the pivot foot bearing weight after it has lost contact with the pitcher's plate. Obviously, I'm in a minority with that opinion.

IMHO, this is illegal:

this is legal:

I see a leap in both.

 

[corlay]

I clearly see a second push, happening when her stride foot is only a foot or so above the ground, just before it plants.
Straight leapers tend to struggle with getting their backside to contribute to the pitch, offen leaving the back leg trailing behid and the back leg stays locked-out. Barnhill solves this by using a second push to power her hips, and is also an "adder" that increases her inertia an instant before stride foot plant and "firming up" her front side to throw against. its like you are speeding toward a brick wall, and in the last few feet before impact you hit the jet fuel axillary turbo booster...

all of this, coupled with her optimized delay of arm circle, really contributes to her velocity.
imagine if she also could get better brush interference and upper arm stabilization/whip. She probably would regularly top 70mph with ease!

her "crow hop" is not nearly as time-delayed as what the men's pitchers do. it happens in much quicker succession from replant-second push-stride foot plant/resist. This is why you dont see the hitch in her circle that Bill mentioned.

like what riseball said, calling her a "unicorn", these mechanics are uniquely hers, and even if other pitchers wanted to emulate it, I doubt most could reproduce her results.