The Kelly Barnhill Thread

[Hillhouse]

[MENTION=674]Hillhouse[/MENTION], in your opinion is there any doubt in your mind that Barnhill is replanting? If she is replanting, why, in your opinion, is it not being called?


In which Barnhill image does the pivot foot bear weight after the initial push, and which does not?

No, I do not think she is crowhopping. She's leaping, there's no doubt. but, EVERY pitcher the crowhops has a hitch or pause in the arm circle. Barnhill does not. Her arm circle is fluent from the backswing around. A crowhop would mean she pauses her arm (usually in the 12:00 position) as the foot replants then finishes the pitch. I don't see that from her. Keep in mind, leaping and crowhopping are both illegal. Although in ISF play, leaping is legal. She is clearly trying to point her toes downward as she jumps, which is another sign of a leaper, not a crowhopper. But the arm hitch is the key. Without it, you cannot have a legit crow hop. it can be very hard to see the difference between the 2... most people just see a pitcher airborne and cry foul "CROW HOP!!" Or my personal favorite, "keep her on the rubber!!!"

Look, it's real simple if you want to eliminate crowhopping AND leaping. You allow the runners to leave first base at the first movement forward. NOT when it releases from the hand. that would cause so many stolen bases that coaches would have to change it and would run hopping pitchers out of the game.

Bill

 

[PEPPERS]

DD's mother and I paid good money sending DD to a pitching coach to teacher her to pitch with in the rules and our DD and others like her practice may hours to be able to throw her pitches with in the rules of the game.

The NCAA and the umpires are showing us that teaching our DD to pitch with in the rules does not matter.

 

[riseball]

...Look, it's real simple if you want to eliminate crowhopping AND leaping. You allow the runners to leave first base at the first movement forward. NOT when it releases from the hand. that would cause so many stolen bases that coaches would have to change it and would run hopping pitchers out of the game.

Bill

Interesting approach!

 

[knightsb]

No, I do not think she is crowhopping. She's leaping, there's no doubt. but, EVERY pitcher the crowhops has a hitch or pause in the arm circle. Barnhill does not. Her arm circle is fluent from the backswing around. A crowhop would mean she pauses her arm (usually in the 12:00 position) as the foot replants then finishes the pitch. I don't see that from her. Keep in mind, leaping and crowhopping are both illegal. Although in ISF play, leaping is legal. She is clearly trying to point her toes downward as she jumps, which is another sign of a leaper, not a crowhopper. But the arm hitch is the key. Without it, you cannot have a legit crow hop. it can be very hard to see the difference between the 2... most people just see a pitcher airborne and cry foul "CROW HOP!!" Or my personal favorite, "keep her on the rubber!!!"

Look, it's real simple if you want to eliminate crowhopping AND leaping. You allow the runners to leave first base at the first movement forward. NOT when it releases from the hand. that would cause so many stolen bases that coaches would have to change it and would run hopping pitchers out of the game.

Bill

To be clear:
1) you do not think her pivot foot bears weight after the initial push.
2) you do not think she is not getting a second push.
3) other than a leap, in your opinion, she is legal.

I must be crazy because I very clearly see the pivot foot weighted a second time, and clearly see a second push.

 

[Hillhouse]

DD's mother and I paid good money sending DD to a pitching coach to teacher her to pitch with in the rules and our DD and others like her practice may hours to be able to throw her pitches with in the rules of the game.

The NCAA and the umpires are showing us that teaching our DD to pitch with in the rules does not matter.

Peppers, I would never advocate teaching someone to pitch illegally. Don't get me wrong here. And it's clear from the clips provided by knightsb where Barnhill shows pitching on the grass is 100% different than what she does in a game: everything from leg movement, to toe drag, to her arm finish (which is more of a whip across as I have always advocated instead of coming straight up). And I don't thing Barnhill's coach ever "taught her to cheat". i think she is a product of her own success. Probably played for a top travel team, and umpires were intimidated. Similar to how NBA refs won't call LeBron for traveling or his 6th foul. The motion she uses now was likely developed over a period of time... not her head coach saying "go ahead and cheat". But she's going to do it until there is a consensus opinion of what she is actually doing.

my advice to EVERYONE on here is to write letters to the rules committee at the NFCA and demand pitching rules get straightened out. NFCA is what sets the rules for NCAA softball. That's where you can make the change. Not yelling about it on here.

Bill

 

[Hillhouse]

To be clear, you do not think:
1) you do not think her pivot foot bears weight after the initial push.
2) you do not thinkshe is not getting a second push.
3) other than a leap, in your opinion, she is legal.

I must be crazy because I very clearly see the pivot foot weighted a second time, and clearly see a second push.

Agree to disagree. I don't see a second push. She'd need to land on the ball of her foot for that, not the side.

Bill

 

[FastPitchCat]

Listen here Fastpitchcat... as Bobby The Brain Henian said in pro wrestling: win if you can, lose if you have to, but always always CHEAT. ha ha

I'm asking this question out of ignorance, I truly don't know: is this Barnhill the fastest pitcher in the game? From what little I've seen from the screen shots on here, her pitches seen to finish way out of the zone. So, it's funny that nobody is critical of the hitters for swinging at crappy pitches. I said it before i'll say it again, the ball has to cross the plate regardless of the motion. Barnhill gives so many opportunites to see what pitch is coming that she may as well have her catcher hold the signals up in the air so everyone can see. She does NOTHING to hide her pitches. I realize that's beside the point from the "crowhop" thing though.

What happens to the girls who follow the rules? Well, couldn't you make the same argument about the slappers who slap legitimately and get out more often than the ones that don't? Or the baserunner who consistently leaves early and gets the SB vs. the girl who stays on until the ball has fully left the pitcher's hand? the truth is, getting an advantage counts. And when it's on your team you tend to see it less (I'm not speaking to anyone in particular, it's just a general statement).

i'm not saying rules be damned. I'm saying the rules are whatever the umpire says they are. just as it's the same for the strikezone. Or leaving early from the base. Or using illegal bats.

Bill

sorry, bill. i don't watch wrestling .

barnhill is not the fastest, but she is fast and as what the commentators would say, throw her rise ball on 3 different planes. the batters would chase it and miss.

 

[FastPitchCat]

To be clear:
1) you do not think her pivot foot bears weight after the initial push.
2) you do not think she is not getting a second push.
3) other than a leap, in your opinion, she is legal.

I must be crazy because I very clearly see the pivot foot weighted a second time, and clearly see a second push.

knight,

do you have one GIF from the side?

 

[knightsb]

She'd need to land on the ball of her foot for that, not the side.

She's not landing on the ball of her pivot foot? Let me clean my glasses.

 

[Hillhouse]

This is what I would call a crowhop.

Bill