Wrapping head

[Cornbread]

You want the drive off the rubber to pull the ball out of the backswing. It’s timing or overlap. As she begins to drive forcefully forward the ball should still be working back if you use a backswing. Then the force of the forward momentum pulls the ball out of the backswing and into the arm circle. When that occurs, the ball will whip around the circle. The two step drill will teach her body timing and I think this will help fix the arm circle. Fix the drive first IMO. It’s going to need to be fixed anyway

 

[Shawn]

Have a pitcher that is struggling with arm circle issues. Beautiful K-drill, 12 o’clock position, and 3/4 position. Once she gets on the mound she cannot complete a pitch without wrapping her head. Going to try a sock ball and changing hand position, currently begins with ball facing first throughout backswing. Any other suggestions?

View attachment 25257

I haven’t read a single post.

She doesn’t have the arms (s) inside the shoulders. No bow.

Also, need to work the distance

 

[Shawn]

I’ve read through the thread and watched OP’s videos. Here’s my two cents. Use what makes sense. Or ignore it. Just sharing from the time and work spent with my DD.

Forward lean at launch is fine. I actually wouldn’t mind if she got even more into an sprinters position. “Knee and nose over toes” was DD’s cue.

Hip opens too early. This is why her drag foot turns inside almost immediately. It can cause a couple problems. The foot turns into a boat anchor. Which then holds the whole lower half back. Not allowing her to “fire the booty muscles” and get herself stacked. Have her concentrate on a laces forward drag foot position start to finish. Or to drag her big toe. Not the inside of her foot. This can be a singular drill/focus. And will take doing it 10k times. But this keeps the hips square and not open too early. Think of it this way. If throwing over hand (or even hitting), would you allow the lower half to act like hers does in the video? No, because too much is left behind. Hip can’t get through.

Push her to drive the stride knee up and out more. Get the stride thigh perpendicular to the ground. This will help her get the hips under the torso and get her stacked. This will be uncomfortable to her but that’s ok.

In terms of the arm circle she is pulling the ball behind her head. DD had this issue when she had a swing back start. But also had the opening early issue. We transitioned her to starting out of the glove (for a multitude of reasons) and eventually a lot corrected. Out of the glove allows the body to stay more square and minimizes getting twisted up.

As a start, I think fixing the lower half will help with the upper.

That’s a thoughtful reply. Very good.

 

[Junebug]

I haven’t read a single post.

She doesn’t have the arms (s) inside the shoulders. No bow.

Also, need to work the distance

Trying to figure out what ur meaning without having to ask. I give up, can you explain?

 

[ArmWhip]

That’s a thoughtful reply. Very good.

I disagree, there is a lot in this post that is debatable. I think that the sprinter start is a poor mental model for pitchers. Sprinters have several strides to get stacked, a pitcher has to be stacked before she lands. Consider the fact that the men lean back and approach launch position from the top, no sprinter start position for them. This girl does not appear to turn her foot too early, and keeping the laces facing forward is not common. She doesn't drag her foot like an anchor, she actually leaps and has no contact with the ground. A pitcher's toe plate is not placed on top of the big toe. Look at Sara Pauly's foot in the Glove Whirl video that is posted, what she does is quite common. And baseball pitchers turn their drive foot 90 degrees, parallel with the rubber, then lift the stride leg as they turn their hips toward 3rd base and drive from a completely open position, so I'm not sure how that relates to softball.

Here is a pitcher that turns her drive foot early.

 

[HunterMO]

I disagree, there is a lot in this post that is debatable. I think that the sprinter start is a poor mental model for pitchers. Sprinters have several strides to get stacked, a pitcher has to be stacked before she lands. Consider the fact that the men lean back and approach launch position from the top, no sprinter start position for them. This girl does not appear to turn her foot too early, and keeping the laces facing forward is not common. She doesn't drag her foot like an anchor, she actually leaps and has no contact with the ground. A pitcher's toe plate is not placed on top of the big toe. Look at Sara Pauly's foot in the Glove Whirl video that is posted, what she does is quite common. And baseball pitchers turn their drive foot 90 degrees, parallel with the rubber, then lift the stride leg as they turn their hips toward 3rd base and drive from a completely open position, so I'm not sure how that relates to softball.

Here is a pitcher that turns her drive foot early.

All good points. I simply posted to offer suggestions that could work and I'm always open to debate/suggestion. Hence the opening statement of "what worked for my DD". Use or ignore.

I will agree that the getting open too early is a debatable topic. I've watched and re-watched the videos. And I go back and forth. Personally, I'd like to see the upper half stay square a little longer. My feeling is she begins opening up before she has to. So, if the shoulders are opening early then so is the hip. Again....I fully admit this way of thinking isn't common. But, I am seeing more of this style and is one that worked wonders for DD.

I'm of the opinion a pitcher wants to keep as minimal weight on the drag foot as possible. I'm assuming most would agree. Otherwise a pitcher has a hard time getting stacked and leaving weight back means leaving energy back. Agreed, the pitcher is leaping. I'm making the assumption that, if she were to actually drag, the foot position remains the same. Given, there is no video evidence, but due to how open the pitcher is....I feel safe assuming this. Also, as a result of getting open (and drag foot being on the inside) I'm not seeing the pitcher fire the hip or get back to a 45deg position (edit: she does, but after release IMO). Examples: See Ueno (the video you posted supports this), Osterman, Bahl (yes, I know she leaps) etc. If you look at Bahl....she utilizes the staying square style and lets the arm rotation open the hip. Allowing her a toes down drag foot position and ability to fire the hip. Cat is similar in the upper half, but opens the bottom half sooner, but does end laces forward and hips 45(ish). Ueno is similar in that regard.

I guess then maybe the question is, does the bottom half help fix the top half? Or can staying square just a little longer help the pulling the warp and pulling behind the head? And thusly aid in the hips? .....if one thinks the hips need adjusting.

I understand the OP was about wrapping the head. But, if all things are connected, was talking through everything to identify a possible fix.

In the end....agree or disagree. I do not pretend to know it all. But, sharing my experience and that of my DD. Appreciate the discussion.

 

[ArmWhip]

I agree that she opens her shoulders too early. I feel that her forward lean at launch is keeping her from getting stacked. The more you lean at launch the further the torso and legs have to move to catch up to the shoulders. The amount of forward lean at launch is typically overestimated. Here is a Java drill STF&G that shows this. Note Cat's leap, possibly a little replant.

Drive Mechanics

Stagger of the feet helps, no doubt. Try sprinting with feet beside each other, vs staggered. The latter is infinitely more efficient. Rocketech1... Stagger creates more space to develop momentum. The giant bend at the knees is not efficient. The stretch shortening cycle says otherwise. A...

www.discussfastpitch.com

 

[Junebug]

I disagree, there is a lot in this post that is debatable. I think that the sprinter start is a poor mental model for pitchers. Sprinters have several strides to get stacked, a pitcher has to be stacked before she lands. Consider the fact that the men lean back and approach launch position from the top, no sprinter start position for them. This girl does not appear to turn her foot too early, and keeping the laces facing forward is not common. She doesn't drag her foot like an anchor, she actually leaps and has no contact with the ground. A pitcher's toe plate is not placed on top of the big toe. Look at Sara Pauly's foot in the Glove Whirl video that is posted, what she does is quite common. And baseball pitchers turn their drive foot 90 degrees, parallel with the rubber, then lift the stride leg as they turn their hips toward 3rd base and drive from a completely open position, so I'm not sure how that relates to softball.

Here is a pitcher that turns her drive foot early.

I agree that she opens her shoulders too early. I feel that her forward lean at launch is keeping her from getting stacked. The more you lean at launch the further the torso and legs have to move to catch up to the shoulders. The amount of forward lean at launch is typically overestimated. Here is a Java drill STF&G that shows this. Note Cat's leap, possibly a little replant.

Drive Mechanics

Stagger of the feet helps, no doubt. Try sprinting with feet beside each other, vs staggered. The latter is infinitely more efficient. Rocketech1... Stagger creates more space to develop momentum. The giant bend at the knees is not efficient. The stretch shortening cycle says otherwise. A...

www.discussfastpitch.com

Thank you for sharing this, I had forgotten this drill.