World Cup of Softball: USA vs Canada-RULES DIFFERENCE

[riseball]

We agree on one thing. yes, in fact way out on a fringe is a VERY accurate. Let's not immediately question the reputation of the coach, STOP. This is not a skill set shown to 95% of girls....

So now we find out it is a secret method taught to the select few? Ockham's razor be damned, these are not pitchers who by all accounts have poor mechanics and who somehow through athleticism find pitching success while leaping. No! No! No! It is a secret method, from secret coaches, taught at secret ball fields in California, for 8 - 10 years. Got it!

...I can swiftly, but I am NOT going give you 2011 or even all the way through 2018 graduates Skills Video's of D1 young ladies long before they were recruited all showing the taught SKILL. Absurd to think I would post videos here so people can thrash young ladies who not only have finished their stellar collegiate careers, but are in fact 13-16 years old doing what they are shown and what they have seen live and in person at games from their older peers for YEARS.

More causation without correlation. So you have observed numerous videos on the Internet of pitchers leaping and you have come to the conclusion that this is instructed behavior. Please explain how you got to this point other than it fits the narrative you have hung your hat upon. It seems that this is a personal theory based solely on your observations of YouTube video. You cling to this but it does not appear that anyone, including your softball brethren from California are ready to jump on the 8-10 year band wagon. But then again it is a secret, so they are probably just not in the club.

 

[Rocketech1]

I'm well aware of where ISF is located and how much influence USA does or doesn't have. Don't condescend. It's unbecoming.

I'm simply suggesting that since the sport was invented and developed in the good ol' USA, then maybe we ought to be taking the lead in rule development. USA conforming to rules that seem to have been developed in order to compensate for weaker competition internationally is just the tail wagging the dog. I, for one, feel much better about my shooting accomplishment if I trained hard enough to consistently hit the bulls eye instead of just shooting in the general vicinity of it and then saying whatever I hit was the bulls eye.

We had a girl come work out with DD's team earlier today who has been living in Australia for the last 8 years and has learned almost everything she knows about softball while there. She's a pitcher. She was taught to leap because it's legal there. Now that they have moved back to the USA, her mother says that she is going to have to work harder to learn how to pitch properly without the leap. We asked why she was instructed to leap. "It's easier and makes the pitchers more competitive" came the reply.


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So it's better to have more restrictive pitching requirements like "leap and drag" and advocate zero enforcement that allows the likes of Barnhill, Osterman, Carda, etc flourish in the sport to the detriment of the legal pitchers? That is the current state of the game and has been going on for a long, long, time.

But hey, at least on paper we make our pitchers drag their foot...and in reality the integrity of the game diminishes each year as the umpires are instructed not to call it.

 

[TexAg1998]

So it's better to have more restrictive pitching requirements like "leap and drag" and advocate zero enforcement that allows the likes of Barnhill, Osterman, Carda, etc flourish in the sport to the detriment of the legal pitchers? That is the current state of the game and has been going on for a long, long, time.

But hey, at least on paper we make our pitchers drag their foot...and in reality the integrity of the game diminishes each year as the umpires are instructed not to call it.

That's not what I'm saying. In fact, it looks like you're making my point for me when you mention Osterman, Carda, Barnhill, etc. They're dominant BECAUSE they pitch illegally and it doesn't get called. Then you have pitchers like Scarborough, Escobedo, Ricketts, and the like who are/were dominant because they worked hard and did it right. They showed us that it IS possible to dominate within the rules.

I could use a whole fistful of parallels to help illustrate my point, but this is not a political page. I'll just say that I consistently advocate for a stricter enforcement of the current rules because I think that loosening or changing the rules to accommodate for lack of enforcement is just the lazy way out. So, while I agree with you that the integrity of the game continues to diminish, I disagree with you about the solution. You say change the rules to make it easier for the pitchers and umpires. I say make the umpires do their job and enforce the rules as written.

I know it's inevitable that rules change, but I'm saying that when they do change that we should be improving the game by making the rest of the world get on par with the USA. And enforce it. The integrity of the game depends on doing what is right, not what is easy.


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[DmystifieD]

So now we find out it is a secret method taught to the select few? Ockham's razor be damned, these are not pitchers who by all accounts have poor mechanics and who somehow through athleticism find pitching success while leaping. No! No! No! It is a secret method, from secret coaches, taught at secret ball fields in California, for 8 - 10 years. Got it!




More causation without correlation. So you have observed numerous videos on the Internet of pitchers leaping and you have come to the conclusion that this is instructed behavior. Please explain how you got to this point other than it fits the narrative you have hung your hat upon. It seems that this is a personal theory based solely on your observations of YouTube video. You cling to this but it does not appear that anyone, including your softball brethren from California are ready to jump on the 8-10 year band wagon. But then again it is a secret, so they are probably just not in the club.

STOP, this is not an observation, it is a teaching. You just cant seem to get past that the FACT that this is being taught. You just cant handle the fact that there are people teaching this in the world and your book on how to pitch doesnt include this.
That is pretty evident. Not only is it evident, you call them cheats and call them out with bad mechanics, again, mechanics that dont match your book therefore they must be bad or cheating. They are within the rules and are doing as they are TAUGHT. again, TAUGHT.

You are stuck in your world/book. I mention that others may be doing things differently and you do nothing but take shots at people. from instructors, to the girls to me. Youtube confirms what I am saying, youtube proves its been going on for years, youtube is NOT the basis of my argument, its the backing. You get to go educate yourself IF you can figure out how. I am NOT leading you to the videos.

Think about this for a minute. Said DD is 13, daddy put up a skills video clearly showing this technique... year or so later she wins ASA nationals, year or so later shes off to a top school, year or so later shes on national team, years or so later shes still on national team. NONE of these coaches changed what she was doing at age 13.... i even laugh more. She is what coaches want. Get over it.

One more bit of follow up since I see you dont have an answer for a relatively simple question, if you have been taught. A LONG time ago that a 6'2" umpires angle to your plant foot is so increased compared to a 5'8" umpire that it "MIGHT" be tougher for them to judge air beneath your drive foot. Now why would someone SAY this instruction? well, because its fact. Now, I ask you this.... If I wasnt taught this, then how and the would I know such an odd answer? Get over it, you are so wrong. It IS taught, and more kids are getting better at it. LMAO..... once you get past that you might be missing something that is being taught you might begin to accept what I have said all along, ITS NOT ILLEGAL if your foot remains in contact with plane/dirt and ITS NOT BEING CALLED AT ANY LEVEL, never has been and sure as heck wont start now.

 

[riseball]

STOP, this is not an observation, it is a teaching. You just cant seem to get past that the FACT that this is being taught. You just cant handle the fact that there are people teaching this in the world and your book on how to pitch doesnt include this.
That is pretty evident. Not only is it evident, you call them cheats and call them out with bad mechanics, again, mechanics that dont match your book therefore they must be bad or cheating. They are within the rules and are doing as they are TAUGHT. again, TAUGHT.

You are stuck in your world/book. I mention that others may be doing things differently and you do nothing but take shots at people. from instructors, to the girls to me. Youtube confirms what I am saying, youtube proves its been going on for years, youtube is NOT the basis of my argument, its the backing. You get to go educate yourself IF you can figure out how. I am NOT leading you to the videos.

Think about this for a minute. Said DD is 13, daddy put up a skills video clearly showing this technique... year or so later she wins ASA nationals, year or so later shes off to a top school, year or so later shes on national team, years or so later shes still on national team. NONE of these coaches changed what she was doing at age 13.... i even laugh more. She is what coaches want. Get over it.

One more bit of follow up since I see you dont have an answer for a relatively simple question, if you have been taught. A LONG time ago that a 6'2" umpires angle to your plant foot is so increased compared to a 5'8" umpire that it "MIGHT" be tougher for them to judge air beneath your drive foot. Now why would someone SAY this instruction? well, because its fact. Now, I ask you this.... If I wasnt taught this, then how and the would I know such an odd answer? Get over it, you are so wrong. It IS taught, and more kids are getting better at it. LMAO..... once you get past that you might be missing something that is being taught you might begin to accept what I have said all along, ITS NOT ILLEGAL if your foot remains in contact with plane/dirt and ITS NOT BEING CALLED AT ANY LEVEL, never has been and sure as heck wont start now.

STOP, you have offered nothing, zero, zip, nada to back up your BS. Not a single pitcher, not a single instructor. This is complete and utter nonsense otherwise you would provide more than your rantings that it is true. You must be the long lost cousin of OILF.

 

[DmystifieD]

STOP, you have offered nothing, zero, zip, nada to back up your BS. Not a single pitcher, not a single instructor. This is complete and utter nonsense otherwise you would provide more than your rantings that it is true. You must be the long lost cousin of OILF.

Your inability to use the internet and your lack of knowledge of the girls all over who use this skill is NOT my problem. Waiting until you hear or see of them for the first time on tv is so typical of this "LeapGate" issue. I have offered that it is being taught, because WE WERE TAUGHT, and your argument is that it is not. Listen to yourself. you struggle with facts.

 

[Rocketech1]

That's not what I'm saying. In fact, it looks like you're making my point for me when you mention Osterman, Carda, Barnhill, etc. They're dominant BECAUSE they pitch illegally and it doesn't get called. Then you have pitchers like Scarborough, Escobedo, Ricketts, and the like who are/were dominant because they worked hard and did it right. They showed us that it IS possible to dominate within the rules.

I could use a whole fistful of parallels to help illustrate my point, but this is not a political page. I'll just say that I consistently advocate for a stricter enforcement of the current rules because I think that loosening or changing the rules to accommodate for lack of enforcement is just the lazy way out. So, while I agree with you that the integrity of the game continues to diminish, I disagree with you about the solution. You say change the rules to make it easier for the pitchers and umpires. I say make the umpires do their job and enforce the rules as written.

I know it's inevitable that rules change, but I'm saying that when they do change that we should be improving the game by making the rest of the world get on par with the USA. And enforce it. The integrity of the game depends on doing what is right, not what is easy.


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BTW - Escobedo was a leaper too...

Have you asked yourself what it is about "leap and drag" mechanics specifically that creates so much chaos in the game? If it's so easy to pitch dragging the foot along the ground and so easy to spot by umpires, why so much controversy?

There may be more to the issue than just incompetent officiating and maybe we are in the middle of a transition of the game where the various governing bodies have not gotten their act together to make the change, so in the meantime the rule book says one thing but the enforcement (or complete lack thereof) says otherwise. It's pretty obvious the governing bodies have created this farce and it's not just an innocent oversight.

I just watched the World Cup of Softball this weekend, some pitchers leaped, others did not. It didn't seem to have a major impact on the game either way (other than Japan's Ueno who throws around 70mph consistently because she gets the best IR on any pitcher I have seen). Allowing leaping will not kill the game of fastpitch, on the contrary it will put all of the pitchers on a level playing field, which is really the point of the rules. Make them fair and equal for all participants. I'm not so stuck in my ways that I can't modify the rules of a simple game to keep up with the current state of fastpitch.

 

[riseball]

Leaping is a symptom of poor mechanics. If a pitcher leaps, 99% of the time it is because they have a mechanical flaw. Why change a rule because someone has poor mechanics? What rule will you change to accommodate those with a poor swing?

 

[Hillhouse]

It's simple. Offense puts butts in the seats. While the softball purists will admire one of your 14K No, No's. It's boring to the novice observer. They would rather see 4 dingers hit in a game instead of an outstanding performance by one individual.

The NFL has gone to QB's with monster arms rather than watch a team grind out a few hundred yards on the ground with the occasional runner breaking one for a long gain. Many of the rules are geared towards allowing the offense an advantage.

The NHL has gone to 3 skaters in OT if tied. Lotsa free-wheeling skating and speed with the faster guys in the league now and more ice to work with. More excitement for the fans.

The only sport that I know of where people are excited with a 0-0 tie is soccer.

Meanwhile pitchers have to wear facemasks because of the offensive changes. I'm sure that was an unintended consequence of the "live ball era". But, at the very least the pitcher should be allowed to step back. IMO.

Bill

 

[Hillhouse]

You do realize that the International Fastpitch Federation (ISF) headquarters are in Plant City, Florida and the USA has a huge influence of shaping the international rules of fastpitch.
.

while this is true, a Canadian is the Executive Director and other nationalities make up the staff. So the home base is somewhat irrelevant these days. I could go into a long story about why it's in Florida but, that would require some potential ugly truths to come out about the previous Executive Director.

Bill