Winning 'B' Nationals means you should have been playing in the 'A' Bracket

[marriard]

Which is why we now never, ever go to 'B' nationals of any kind. We got sick of seeing the last 6-8 teams being trophy hunting 'A' teams.

Two years ago one team won both the 'A' and 'B' nationals in one Alphabet Org in consecutive weeks.... and yes, they let the 'A' champs play in the 'B' championships the week after they won A's. I guess their check cleared just fine.

 

[JAD]

There are a lot of coaches and parents who would rather win a B-level tournament than finish in the bottom half on a A-level tournament - always has been, always will be. Not sure there is anything anyone can do about it other than remember that college coaches do not care what your DD did when she was 10U, 12U or 14U and she better be playing A-level ball at 16U to get noticed.

 

[MTR]

Speaking ASA

The problem is the commissioners who are in control and some will allow teams to call the shots as to where they play.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Which is why we now never, ever go to 'B' nationals of any kind. We got sick of seeing the last 6-8 teams being trophy hunting 'A' teams.

I agree that those 6-8 would've been just fine playing in the A division. But how do you solve that problem?

I don't like the idea of 'A' and 'B' teams. IMO, associations should not segregate 'A' and 'B' teams because those divisions based on some myth that there is an obvious separation line between the two. What is a 'B' team? How do you make that standard across the country? You can't.

The solution that I would propose is to use scores to rank teams. Needs to be a more sophisticated model than USSSA currently uses. That model sucks. There are better ones.

Once you do that, you rank every team in the nation. It can be done if you have scores from every event.

Then have guidelines for separation based on the number of teams that enter a tournament. For example, if 24 teams enter 14U, tournament director may have two divisions of 12, or one division of 8, one division of 16, and the divisions will be based on the team's ranking. Some teams will always be in the high division. Some teams always in the low. Some teams bouncing back and forth.

For national championships, you do the same. You might take 200 teams. You might put 64 in the A division, the rest in B.

Or, if you want to define A, B and C, base it on the rankings. Top 15 percent of teams are classified as A. Next 50 percent is B. Bottom 35 percent is C. Something like that.

 

[RetiredCoach]

Just got knocked out of a 14U B state tournament today. One of the 14U B pitchers that we faced today threw 55+ and had a real rise ball. At least in my area you don't see too many pitchers this well developed even at the 16U A level. Makes me wonder what the 14U A team is like if she couldn't make that?

 

[Coachmom]

Not every player wishes to play A travel ball. I know many players who tried the travel ball route, hated it, quit for a while and went back to rec to play with friends.
Doesn't mean that they suck as players. Travel is not for everyone. A ball is travel ball where I live.

 

[grcsftbll]

Where I live travel ball and A ball are definitely not synonymous.

 

[MNDad]

The solution that I would propose is to use scores to rank teams. Needs to be a more sophisticated model than USSSA currently uses. That model sucks. There are better ones.

Once you do that, you rank every team in the nation. It can be done if you have scores from every event.

Then have guidelines for separation based on the number of teams that enter a tournament. For example, if 24 teams enter 14U, tournament director may have two divisions of 12, or one division of 8, one division of 16, and the divisions will be based on the team's ranking. Some teams will always be in the high division. Some teams always in the low. Some teams bouncing back and forth.

For national championships, you do the same. You might take 200 teams. You might put 64 in the A division, the rest in B.

Or, if you want to define A, B and C, base it on the rankings. Top 15 percent of teams are classified as A. Next 50 percent is B. Bottom 35 percent is C. Something like that.

With the number of teams and all the different sanctioning organizations that would be impossible. Using records wouldn't be reliable when some teams seek out top competition and others play locally to beat up on weak competition and play in USSSA or some no name local "National" tournament.

 

[vino1972]

Just returned from c World Series. We are not a club team, or try out team. Just a group of girls that have played together for last 4 years. We are 3-8 vs "b" teams and 19-8 vs c teams. Lost in championship vs team from Arkansas who was 19-2 vs c teams and 5-2 vs B teams. They won 3 open tournaments this year. So sand banging happens at all levels. Happy with our effort though.

 

[Swim Coach]

Our local Association's rec all-star 10U baseball team got the reverse treatment this weekend. They went to a local unsanctioned tournament that was open to single community and multiple community C teams. The won last this tournament last year (with a different group of kids who are 11 this year). They play a rec schedule and then about 4-5 tournaments starting end of June and they are split on 3 teams during rec season. Our rec Assn. has about 35 kids playing 10U Mustang.

They went to the tournament this year and drew the host in the first game of pool play Friday night. Our team won by run rule 10-0. I've seen this team and they have a couple really good kids and a bunch of average kids. While I wasn't at this game, I am close friends with many and they said this game could have gone the other way, we sort of got all the breaks and things just went our way.

Anyway, after the game the TD came up to our team and told our coaches we were not welcome back the next day. They said while they acknowledged that we weren't breaking any rules, we were simply too good for their tournament. The classification was C, as determined by the opinion of the TD. We probably draw from the smallest potential pool around. Our school district probably has the smallest enrollment around and that's how the team is determined, although this tournament allowed multiple district and travel teams.

Our coaches and parents were none to happy. Seems like some home cooking/sour grapes there. In this case we had about 6-8 tournaments to choose from and picked this one because we liked the venue and set up last year. Maybe the TD should have told us before entering that we weren't allowed to win.