Who is in Favor of....

[02Crush]

Why is this a problem? Why should we care what level another team chooses to play?

While it is not a big deal once the girls are grown and generally the same size age does not matter as much. However as they develop in younger ages, say 8,9,10, 11... then yes it matter when an 00 is playing down in the fall against an 02/03 group. Yes it matters then. It is a danger to play against kids who are 6-8 inches taller and have 20-40 pounds on our girls. period.

 

[02Crush]

I always wondered why they didn't just make the age date September 1st since it would synch well with School levels (since most schools have a Sept 1 cutoff date now) and the change of the softball seasons.

Exactly why I am asking. I do not care if the date it June, September...whatever. Just want to make a rule that seems to work in Baseball and has for years. People Claim how noble and right it is to "play up" but I rarely see it in 10U age groups. As for this concept of "playing against the best makes us the best"...Well..I merely believe that playing time at any level makes you better.

 

[02Crush]

Well I do appreciate everyone's input. I liked Jad's comment about the amount of teams being a reason why single ages would not work in our sport. It makes sense. I have yet to see a valid argument for not running age groups just as Baseball does. BTW, Thanks for throwing in the ASA reference MTR as it lends perspective that this topic has been discussed at higher levels than I. September 1st is probably a better date as opposed to June 1st. Down here we will have almost all the season done by June's end because we start playing in late February. I suppose I was thinking School's end not School Beginning.
Gotta Love the ability to play all year!
Again Thanks for all your opinions. It is nice to be able to think of something and within a few days get such a great amount of response and perspective.

 

[BB875]

Late commer here...I say NO & NO. My only comment on teams playing down in the fall is that the coaches are plain BAD. Why would you beat up on younger teams to win hardware? What are you teaching your kids? After the summer is over, you ALWAYS move up in the fall. Some tourney directors around here state "2013 Roster Only" to force them to play the proper level...

Parents, question your coach on playing down in the Fall. Why? A false sense of superiority is just dumb. Confidence building, my a$$.

 

[Ghostrider]

Nope. Folks put way to much emphasis on kids who are moving up to the next age group AFTER Jan who play fall ball. If they're LEGAL , lets say 14U, let them play 14U. What people have a problem with is they are moving THEIR kids up early for Fall Ball and don't want to compete with the older girls who are actually playing within their last 'season' in that age group. Especially a team that was good in 12U, plays 14U in fall ball and gets whipped. Then the tears and wahambulances roll.

 

[42'sdad]

Nope. Folks put way to much emphasis on kids who are moving up to the next age group AFTER Jan who play fall ball. If they're LEGAL , lets say 14U, let them play 14U. What people have a problem with is they are moving THEIR kids up early for Fall Ball and don't want to compete with the older girls who are actually playing within their last 'season' in that age group. Especially a team that was good in 12U, plays 14U in fall ball and gets whipped. Then the tears and wahambulances roll.

The true 14u's that played the 2012 season that are playing fall ball right now in the 14u class, are actually 15. So tell me again who is playing down or up? Right now is the start of the 2013 season, teams should be playing in their age class.

 

[CoogansBluff]

While it is not a big deal once the girls are grown and generally the same size age does not matter as much. However as they develop in younger ages, say 8,9,10, 11... then yes it matter when an 00 is playing down in the fall against an 02/03 group. Yes it matters then. It is a danger to play against kids who are 6-8 inches taller and have 20-40 pounds on our girls. period.

yes, but this is hypothetical. I would assume that an 02/03 team is going to find an entry-level tournament, whereas the '00 is going to be playing in a more high-level tournament.

In Georgia, where I think we both are/were, I never saw many teams staying back. I think my team played one 'stay back' team in 4 seasons. And that was a weak team against its own-age (although they beat us by a run. So perhaps I'm not experienced enough with this to comment. If what you describe happens frequently, then I can concede that it's a problem. But I think coaches and tournament directors have enough good judgment to avoid that.

 

[CoogansBluff]

Late commer here...I say NO & NO. My only comment on teams playing down in the fall is that the coaches are plain BAD. Why would you beat up on younger teams to win hardware? What are you teaching your kids? After the summer is over, you ALWAYS move up in the fall. Some tourney directors around here state "2013 Roster Only" to force them to play the proper level...

Parents, question your coach on playing down in the Fall. Why? A false sense of superiority is just dumb. Confidence building, my a$$.

Aren't you assuming the motives of these coaches who stay down? How do you know it's to win hardware? It might be a team that's never played travel ball. Or a travel team that just went 7-42 that would rather go 3-3 than 0-4 w/ a 40-run differential. It might be a weekend where the only 14U tournament nearby is the A-Ball Classic when there's a 12U-B event up the street that they still can't win. It might be a tournament where most of the teams entered are staying back. It might be that winning 3 games instead of 0 can be very good for morale. I'm not automatically going to judge a head coach who knows his/her team and players and history better than I do.

 

[MsDinosaur]

Since it's legal for girls to play at the same age level in the fall as they did in the spring, I think you could argue that it's actually the younger teams who are playing up and are thus implicitly accepting the risk that they will meet girls two years older.

I know it's the custom and my DD's teams have always played up in the fall, but I think it's a bad idea to start playing around with the cutoff dates just to prevent perceived rule-breaking that is actually completely legal.

Last fall when DD was on a first year 12UB team, there weren't enough 12U teams in one tournament, so they ended up playing 14UC. And I think some of those 14UC teams were going to be moving to 16UC in the spring! The size differential was scary, but after a while our girls saw that they could hang in there just fine with those teams. (They had some big hitters, but they gave up lots of errors.) It can actually be a real confidence booster for a girl to see that she can compete well against the "big" girls.

 

[roscoe545]

In our area, we don't have enough participation for single age groups to fill tournys, so I am
a no on that one. Fall ball around here is more of a fun league for the girls who want extra
playing time after the season is over, and they are not picky about age groups. Last year,
DD's team was made up of a mix of 12's, 14's, and a few 16's from 5 different teams.
Everyone played every position (other than P and C), and they mixed up the batting lineup
every game. It was a great experience and a great time as well.

However, if I'm not mistaken, over half of the second year 14U players turn
15 years old at some point in the tourny season here. So technically, they are not just playing
"down" for fall ball, but the tourny season as well.

I understand using the 12/31 bday makes it a lot easier to figure out age groups. On the other
hand, to me 14U means if you turn 15 at any point in the season, you would not be eligible to
play 14U. It is what it is and it most likely won't be changed. But DD, being on the young end
of the rule, is losing out on a lot of playing time for the second year in a row watching her
teammates play HS ball.

After working harder than anyone on her team over winter, she really took it to heart as a 7th
grader, having to watch most of her teammates play ball for 2 months before her season started.
Being forced to play against 9th graders in TB but not eligible to compete against them in HS ball
is what was not fair to her.