Who calls the pitch ?

[sluggers]

asked this question of two D1 Ohio college head coaches this winter - "From an evaluation perspective of a potential D1 catching recruit, how important is it that they can demonstrate calling their own game" - there response "Not at all". In both cases, their pitching coaches call the game. .

(A) Having a D1 coach "call the game" isn't what you think it is. The coach calls for a particular pitch and a general location for the pitch. For example, the coach will call for a low and outside drop ball. Great. But, what speed is the pitcher going to throw the ball? Is this a drop ball for a strike? Is this a drop ball where the horizontal location of the ball is over the corner of the plate or entirely off the plate? How is the pitcher supposed to figure this out if she is an idiot when it comes to reading batters and game situations?

(B) Your DD might want to have a successful HS career. If so--NEWS FLASH--the HS coaches, generally, are idiots. And, the HS coach isn't going to let Daddy come sit on a bucket in the dug out and give signs to his DD. The catchers on HS teams may not be travel ball catchers. So, your DD has to learn to pitch.

(C) As to travel ball, not all travel ball coaches are softball geniuses. There is no guarantee that your DD is going to have a great catcher behind the plate. Here is what happened to my DD one summer: The team had two great, smart catchers. Catcher #1 broke her nose--out for the season. Catcher #2 broke her thumb. So, the team converted an outfielder to catcher. The head coach was a hitting coach, but he didn't have a clue how to call a game. So, my DD ended up calling the game for herself.

(D) Finally, someone who won't let his DD call her own pitches for a bunch of meaningless JHS softball games is bordering upon being a helicopter parent.

 

[fastpitch]

I can see where a coach/crazy pitching dad would probably make better pitch selection decisions than a 12yo; but IMHO learning how to select pitches based on batters stances; what they did the last at bat; count; situation etc is a skill all pitchers need to develop. I know we want to put our DDs in a position to be successful and maybe she may do a little better now if you call her pitches but she will become a better overall softball player if she learns to think for herself. I also imagine if she knows how good pitchers think it would help her as a hitter as well.

 

[Dave D]

Kick me off the pitching thread if you want for saying this, but it's the CATCHER I want calling the game, if she has the confidence and creativity to do it. I was at a clinic several years ago with Deb Hartwig (a great catcher and clinician) and she drove home the importance of recruiting smart catchers and teaching them to call their own games from the youngest ages possible. I've always encouraged my catchers to call the game because they can see the situation the clearest. I also want pitchers to have an idea of what pitch they want to throw and what pitch they definitely DON"T want to throw in a given situation, then have the confidence to shake off when necessary. I can think of a lot of reasons for the pitcher to not call her own pitches, most of which stem from over-reliance on a pitch and location that is in her comfort zone. With all that said, I still call pitches in certain situations, mostly when pitcher and catcher are struggling to know what to call. C can look over and I try to be ready with a sign when she needs the boost.

Ray, I usually agree with you, but have to disagree strongly with your comments about HS coaches. I guess I would say that, in my experience, SOME HS coaches (like some TB coaches) are idiots. Most are hard-working, well-trained and very professional. When I was a HS coach, I'm sure that I was seen by some parents as an idiot, but I stand by the work that I did in that situation. Having been in both situations as a coach, I'd say travel ball coaches and HS coaches (when they don't overlap) see one another in essentially the same ways. Though I was, for years, the "English Teacher with a coaching contract," I always did my due diligence in seeking out information and developing my instructional and strategic practices. My players, very few of whom played travel ball, competed, had fun, and occasionally went on to play in college.

 

[sluggers]

Dave, first, having a good HS coach is a wonderful, amazing experience for the kids. A good HS coach is priceless. I've read your posts, and I'm sure you were a great coach.

With a good coach, if your DD is a good athlete, she'll learn a lot. With a good coach, even if your DD is marginal, she'll learn a lot. The problem is that there are very, very few good HS coaches out there.

I had three kids play sports in HS, and they played softball, water polo, basketball and tennis as well as ran track and cross-country. Two of my DDs went on to play sports in college. Of all the HS, JV, and JHS coaches they had, probably 50 in all, only two of them (tennis and track coach) understood what they were doing. The rest were at best going through the motions, and the worst were asleep at the wheel.

My two favorite HS coach stories:

(1) My DD's HS hoop team had fought back from a 10 point deficit to be down 3 with 45 seconds left in the game. The coach calls time out and says in the huddle, "I don't know what we should do." and goes and sits down.
(2) My DD's softball team is playing the Mudrugs two days before the start of the playoffs. As luck would have it, we are playing the Mudrugs in the first round of the playoffs. The coach calls my DD and the other pitcher (Suzy) over. The coach says (and I kid you not), "Suzy, you are starting today. We don't want the Mudrugs to see our best pitcher."

 

[Coachmom]

My DD is a pitcher currently playing for her JV High School team. She also plays travel ball for an 18U gold team.
The catcher for her high school team has been her catcher all throughout her rec ball days from 8U to 12U. The catcher never made the switch to travel ball but she still calls my DD's game.
They were taught to work together from a very early age and it is paying off now as her JV team is undefeated so far this season. I am glad that the high school coach is NOT a control freak and allows the girls to call their own game.
They are having a great time with it.

 

[Tangy-Mike]

My DD is a pitcher currently playing for her JV High School team. She also plays travel ball for an 18U gold team.
The catcher for her high school team has been her catcher all throughout her rec ball days from 8U to 12U. The catcher never made the switch to travel ball but she still calls my DD's game.
They were taught to work together from a very early age and it is paying off now as her JV team is undefeated so far this season. I am glad that the high school coach is NOT a control freak and allows the girls to call their own game.
They are having a great time with it.

Is your dd high school team state champion caliber?

Having a daughter that plays 18u gold in the summer and on the JV team during school ball - they better be.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I am glad to see so many people letting the girls call the game. A good catcher is a blessing. I wouldn't want to take part of the game away from her.

Now, if you don't have a true catcher, calling the pitches would be a problem.

 

[Coachmom]

Is your dd high school team state champion caliber?

Having a daughter that plays 18u gold in the summer and on the JV team during school ball - they better be.

LOL. Definitely NOT!!
We live in Southern California and many of the high school teams here would be state champion caliber in any other state.
Our Varsity team is middle of the road but our senior pitcher is signed with Cal Berkley, our next in line is a junior who has verballed to Purdue
SOO, as an unsigned sophomore my DD gets to pitch one more year of JV.
She is having fun with it though since she gets all the pitching time and averages about 12-14 strike outs per game, this average is MUCH lower during her gold season.
She is not really even a strike out pitcher with her gold team, she is a junker.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

Look, the pitcher calls the pitch. If she agrees with the call, that's fine, if not. That's what the shake off is for. She should know what is working and what's not. Period!!

 

[jimginas]

I agree with Sluggers and Amy.
1) Don’t stress out so much, JUST teach them and let them learn from mistakes!!

You have to teach the catchers AND Pitchers why certain pitches might work and what might not , How to set up batters based on what they give you in their stances, Swings, Aggressive, not aggressive, takes 1st pitch, likes to SWING at 1st pitch, etc..... Pitchers/Catchers and I talk about this before the season starts, we share our thoughts so HOPEFULLY what they are learning makes SENSE to them.


That said, I do have fun calling games and setting batters up, but its a CONTINUAL learning experience. I grab the catcher and pitcher before the start of the inning to discuss who we are facing that inning and what we believe might work, when they come in from the field, we discuss what pitches worked and why so they learn and if certain pitches were hit solid, why that happened.
*** I ALWAYS believe my girls will learn the game and pitch calling better then many coaches I know!
-- Many times, I will tell the catcher to call the inning and if she is ok, then she continues and we talk about what she called and if their was rationale for pitches she called.
A LEARNED Catcher can see the batter's feet in relationship to the plate and get a good sense for what she believes can get a result based on a certain pitch. Ultimately, she SHOULD learn how to call pitches and although some college coaches call pitches at their program, many don't. (Nancy Evans is/was my favorite pitching coach and she called her own. She ALSO CHARTED EVERY PITCH AND BATTER of EVERY GAME, and I learned from her and find its EXTREM:Y HELPFUL for me to be able to know what pitch was thrown, what causes problems for batters, what she hits well, and if I the batter has a habit of WATCHINIG EVERY 1st PITCH, OR aggressive ad swings at 1st pitches! (Just had a game where almost every batter swings at 1st pitch (Coaches strategy) to make them aggressive and we began throwing 4-6 inches off the plate to make them swing at stupid pitches to either get the strike or a poorly hit ball.