Who calls the pitch ?

[Greenmonsters]

The desired attributes you are describing are those of a "catcher" as opposed to the skill set possessed by a player who catches. The difference isn't just semantics - just ask a pitcher! Often overlooked is that the amount of time and effort it takes to become a competent catcher is a close second to that required to be a solid pitcher. There are tons of pitching coaches and lots of hitting coaches out there, but far fewer catching instructors and even fewer really good ones. If you come across a young girl with desire and affinity for the position, target her early and steer her (and yourself) to Dave Weaver's (aka Catching Coach on this forum) New England Catching Camp's DVD if you aren't fortunate enough to be near his home base in New England. You know you've found a likely candidate when she doesn't want to play any other position! Find em young, teach em right, give em some rope, untie them when they get tangled, and you've got a SB enthusiat for life even if they don't have the talent to play at the 'next' level.

I'm much calmer now!

GM

 

[Simo]

Especially when I see the coach from an opposing team sitting over on his bucket calling every aspect of the game and then I watch our girls go in, call their own game and whoop the opponent handily. I LOVE it. it themselves.

That's just my opinion.[/QUOTE]

You are assuming that the pitcher is throwing what the coach is calling. In the end, it doesn't matter who is calling the game if the pitcher cannot execute.

 

[lhowser]

If you claim by experience, then it better have been as a former C or P who has done it 10000s of times in game situations where they have been accountable for the results.

That is a bad premise about coaching. New Orleans Saints Offensive Coordinator Pete Carmichael Jr has almost no playing experience. he cannot see the defense up close, He doesn't have playing experience and yet he designs and calls every play. Not the quarterback. The won the Superbowl.

I see an awful lot of coaches calling pitches w/ no real clue as to what they're doing other than seemingly feeding their ego at the expense of their players' development.

That is really a huge assumtion on your part..."No idea what their doing???"..."feeding their ego"??? I may be wrong about this topic but I can assure you based on my teams records in summer ball I know what I am doing and the only ego i am trying to feed is the pitchers by trying to help her succeed.

 

[Coachmom]

Not assuming anything, obviously it won't matter either way if you have a pitcher who does not execute.
What difference does it make then who calls the pitches? That argument is kind of silly then isn't it?
Seems to me you are making the assumption that the only reason we would lose against a coach who calls the game would be because the pitcher was not "executing" the coaches game. If that were true then I suppose every team we've faced this season, the opposing pitcher was not executing the coaches game.

We are 10-0 so far and our catcher (who will not be going to college to play softball) calls every pitch.

As far as comparing softball to football, not really getting that at all. Apples and Oranges but hey, I'm just a girl.

 

[lhowser]

As far as comparing softball to football, not really getting that at all. Apples and Oranges but hey, I'm just a girl.

It's just a logical extension. If being on the field in the heat of the battle and/or having 1000's of experiences is the critera for the best decision making it should apply in other sports as well. Doesn't mean that it's not good for a catcher to call pitches. It just means it's not a good arguement as to why.

in thsi thread I was just simply explaining what I saw as the benefits of coaches calling pitches for younger players and teams. Both for the team and for the position players. If other models work great. But the idea that coaches who do so have no clue (our high school coach, Div 1 State finalist 4 straight years and champions last year in a good Softball state, he calls pitches and his pitcher was a Top D1 recruit that is a top performer on her college team as a Freshman) or that they are feeding their ego is wrong and off target.

 

[Simo]

We are 10-0 so far and our catcher (who will not be going to college to play softball) calls every pitch.

That and $1 will get you a cup of McDonalds fine roast coffee.

 

[Coachmom]

We are 10-0 so far and our catcher (who will not be going to college to play softball) calls every pitch.

That and $1 will get you a cup of McDonalds fine roast coffee.

I guess that sums it all up.

Nice chatting with you.

 

[Greenmonsters]

That is a bad premise about coaching. New Orleans Saints Offensive Coordinator Pete Carmichael Jr has almost no playing experience. he cannot see the defense up close, He doesn't have playing experience and yet he designs and calls every play. Not the quarterback. The won the Superbowl.

That is a bad comparison about play calling and experience. NFL and college teams have tons of opponent video, detailed scouting reports, dedicated video analysts, real-time multi-angle video feed, headset telecommunications etc, and sit in the skyboxes far above the field. They have ALL the historical and current data required to call the right play, but the QB still has the option to audible if the defensive set changes before the snap. Given ALL the info, I could see where someone w/ little game experience could be successful calling plays. In MLB BB, teams have detailed scouting reports and sabermetric evaluations ala Bill James, but the C calls the pitches because they are the only one positioned to know how the pitcher is throwing (which can vary inning to inning), what the umpire’s strike zone is, and the subtle adjustments that a batter makes in the box. Some FB teams supposedly script the first 10-20 plays. Think this would work in BB/SB? There’s an 0-2 count and a low ball dead FB pull hitter up, the script calls for a down and in FB – what are the chances that will turn out well? IMO, until you’ve had the chance to sit behind the plate, you likely don’t fully appreciate the nuances of pitch calling – this is one of the reasons that catchers catch and hate to change positions even if it would extend their careers and allow them to earn more $$$. How many MLB managers and coaches have never played the game? Why are so many MLB managers and catchers former catchers? There's got to be a good reason.

That is really a huge assumtion on your part..."No idea what their doing???"..."feeding their ego"??? I may be wrong about this topic but I can assure you based on my teams records in summer ball I know what I am doing and the only ego i am trying to feed is the pitchers by trying to help her succeed.[/QUOTE]

I stand by what I wrote. I intentionally said an awful lot rather than most or all. I’ve also seen many coaches who do a good job calling pitches, but still far too many bad ones who IMO clearly didn’t have a clue what they were doing based on the pitches and pitch sequences they called in certain situations. And these are the one’s that I most often hear bragging later about how they set up that hitter and got her out. Tell me they’re not stroking their ego. They should get as much credit for the pitcher’s execution and success as the idiots I’m hearing in the background during the Masters Par 3 tournament should get for a pro’s hole in one after they helpfully yell “get in the hole”.

Nothing personal intended. I believe you when you say you’re most concerned about helping your players be successful. My primary point is that a coach is doing his/her players, and specifically their catchers, a disservice if they don’t teach them how to call a game AND provide them the opportunity to succeed, or fail, on their own.

My playing days are over. I just want my DD and other catchers to have the same opportunity that I did, if they so choose, to learn and love the game.

Regards – GM

 

[Simo]

Would anyone have their daughters follow Monica Abbott's wind up and form? Probably not, but she is arguably one of the best pitchers in the world. This is not a one size fits all game and a coach has to be able to work with the talent that he/she has. If you are blessed with TB prodigies who play gold and can execute your game plan to the letter your strategy is going to be different than the HS coach who has to contend with whatever comes their way from season to season. Some kids are up to the challenge and have the savvy and ball smarts to call a game earlier in life. Most do not. Those who do are probably college bound or at least have the potential. To villify a coaches style without knowing the circumstances or talent pool that they are working with is counter productive.

 

[rob782]

thanks for all the replies. I look forward to her putting the pieces of the puzzle together. Her TB catcher will be playing on the same school team so I have them working together now on calling pitches. I'm actually looking forward to having some fun when that 1st ball gets hit to the moon and I can be the one to say " not what I would have called"