what's the RVP connection point position?

[FiveFrameSwing]

This pass through position is popularly embraced by several hitting systems ... but with different names.

- The RVP system refers to it as the "Connection Point" position.

- Mankin refers to it as the "Power-V" position.

- Emanski refers to it as the "Explosion Point" position.

- HI refers to it as the "Swearing In Position".

- Yeager refers to it as "Down through the nipple".

- Tewks refers to it as the "Truth Position".

- Epstein refers to it as the "Torque Position".

Which question does this post answer?

Must a post answer a question?

Have you answered all the questions I’ve asked you? The answer is “no” by the way.

Passing through this position is considered highly important to some. Tewks even called it the “Truth Position” … as he saw it as representing the moment of truth.

Hard to believe that someone can be this far into hitting …. Even follow HI where it is known as the “Swearing In Position”, and yet freshly discover the position years later. But that’s how important this position is when you finally feel it’s value … and hence his name … the “Truth Position”.

I recall hearing how Emanski discovered this position. He thought he had re-invented hitting with this discovery. Truth is … it had already been discovered …. But it was new to him. He called it the “Explosion Position” … because he felt passing through this position led to “explosive” hitting. That was his way of suggesting it was “powerful”.

Mankin didn’t mince words … he simply called it the “Power Vee Position” … noting both the upright “Vee” and attributing the passage to “Power”.

Yeager saw its value in terms of “hand path”.

Epstein saw it as a position in which the body was “torqued” … and leading to “power”.

The RVP Connection term is basically that passing through this position gives “additive” power.

So ask yourself …. Why have so many people independently discovered the value of this position? Are they all wrong?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Mann, one thing that may be confusing you is the word “connection” in the phrase “RVP Connection Point Position”.

I say this, because recently you have been making posts on a terminology of “connection” that is different. You’ve been using a rigid device to help maintain equal spacing between the elbows.

While the RVP system refers to the “RVP Connection Point Position” as “connection”, it has a different meaning.

You’ll often hear advocates of the RVP hitting system speaking of “live and independent hands”. When they speak of “live”, they mean that the hands are in continuous movement … that’s really all they mean by ‘live’. When they speak of “independent” they mean that the elbows and hands are independent of the shoulders. That’s basically all they mean by the term "independent". They want the hands moving (“live”) and they want them “independent” of the shoulders. I’ll leave it to you to answer the question if that is what you are accomplishing when you place a rigid rod between your elbows to maintain elbow spacing.

So what does the RVP system mean by “connection”? Their measure of “connection” is the “RVP Connection Point Position”. It is not about placing a rigid rod between two body segments to physically ‘connect’ them … But instead about whether or not the lower and upper body segments are working efficiently together. From the RVP perspective, the measurement of how well the upper and lower body segments are working together is largely determined by how well the swing passes through the “RVP Connection Point Position”.

Again, it has nothing to do with keeping the distance between the elbows fixed. The position is referred to as “connection” by the RVP hitting system. Honestly, given the RVP usage … they probably should have called it the “Synchronization Position” … because according to the RVP system, it is a measure of how well synchronized the upper and lower body segments are.

And before you scoff at the importance of ‘synchronization’ … keep in mind that for the longest time HI had 3 main themes … HPP, RHPP and Synchronization. TomG was always big on the importance of synchronized movement ... and for a good reason IMO.

 

[chrispots]

now that I know what the RVP connection point looks like, why is it called "the connection point"

And why is it so important to get into this position?

What purpose does it serve?

Mann,

You can call it whatever "point" you like...from my perspective it is the point that needs to be achieved - period.

Before I go on - you're a smart guy...too smart to ask those questions...

So lets try this a little differently...let's assume this ISN'T an important position to hit or that this position is incorrect or less than optimal...

What positions would you want to see?

Would you want the barrel higher or lower?
What if BB's hands were further away from his shoulder?
Would you not want to see roughly 90* angles formed between his forearms?
Would you not want to see the 90* angle between his bat and left forearm?
Would you not want to see the "cup" in his left wrist?
Would you want the rear elbow tighter or further away from his side?

I could list 10 other things but that would be obnoxious and no, I don't expect answers to the above...just understand it is a great benchmark position

BUT also understand...

THIS IS A PASS THROUGH POINT ONLY! If you don't grasp that...don't read on IMO

My short answer to your question "why is this important?" is simply every high level hitter on the planet passes through this position.

What is it's purpose? That could be answered any number of ways...

From MY perspective, it's purpose is to help me help my hitters. This is a position a coach should be using as a tool to see what their hitters are doing - I love that Tewks refers to this as the truth position. Can you effectively hit the ball without being in this position? I'm sure you can - up to a certain level - I just don't think you'll be as consistent as you could be as you play up against elevated competition. As a coach or as Mon/Dad you can use this position as a great checkpoint as you are building your DD\player's swings.

IMO this is especially an important point for those of you who read these hitting posts and struggle with the biomechanical and esoteric terms used on these boards - you don't need to know anything about dorsiflexion, supination, external rotation or whether or not the Roswell incident ever occurred - you simply need to match up your player\DD to this pic of Bonds (or pic (pun!) your favorite player). Still photos are NOT perfect but they can help you get in the ball park if you are not sure what to do/where to start, etc.

As Fastpitch26 mentioned, I often backward chain my hitters - meaning I start at extension or contact and have them "play" the swing in reverse and then forward chain it back to contact\extension to have them feel the motion. IF they are turning the barrel and IF their lower half is reasonable your players SHOULD be PASSING THROUGH this position. Mann - try this with your heavy bag drills...you are not far off from what I've seen.

Here's my DD2 from about 7 months ago age 10 we got here primarily via backward chaining focus was on pulling the handle down at "go" and getting the back of the right hand turned (like the Braun gif)

She still has issues in her lower and I would like to see a little more of an upright angle of the barrel but I have her hands in a reasonably good place as we start to build out her swing. My point: I used the RVP spot as a benchmark as we made small changes. I won't show you what she looked like prior Swimming just ended so I don't have anything recent but her swing is vastly improved from that gif...

Take a peak in the model swings thread and use Kinovea to frame by frame the gifs...you'll see just how important this position is...small example:



Next, IMO, video your gals ONLY looking for this position...you'll see your players casting, barrel dumping, and all sorts of crazy things...all of it's fixable and is usually related to a sequence issue but you could do far worse than using this position as your baseline...

This is my 2 cents...sorry for the length...CP

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

CP, I've seen enough video that I tend to believe that Mann is struggling with the concept. We need to let him ask all the questions that he feels that he needs to ask.

What your video above resembles is a trapped barrel that has the young lady spinning in an attempt to unpry the barrel from its trapped position. Basically, she needed to work the barrel prior to the first frame of the above video.

 

[straightleg]

RVP connection point.....Hand stacked over the elbow at the back stripe in the pants.
I believe that is what Candera says.



SL

Mann. Here is another with a different bat angle



SL

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

There seems to a bit of confusion on what the RVP definition is of 'connection'.

RVP: "Connection is defined as the position when the hands pass in front of the back shoulder".

People can try to muddy up the waters, but the concept is pretty simple and has been defined by RVP.

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

The RVP logic on connection is that the hands & elbows are working at one particular speed …. And that they are in sequence with the hips, which are working at a particular speed …. And that this is in sequence with the ‘release’ (Howe’s “launch”), which operates at a particular speed. The notion being that if the “sequence” is correct that each of these speeds will be additive.

It’s about the “sequence”.

 

[mann]

thank you all, this place is(can be) priceless.

 

[mann]

Tewk's "stepping open drill"

i believe shoulder down and in would help .
stepping open while forming a "stack" or RVP connection point.

Just for the sake of discussion, Tewks is teaching much more of a wrap, and "flattening,

As compared to this clip of Hamilton, who has a much shorter Barrel path to the ball, and not so stacked.

My DD has amore tip and rip, bat path, she is tall, and i thought that might help her , and it did, with low pitches.

When i drill, i will add the stack, keep an eye out now, for this rvp position.

although there does seem to be some hitters, who only get close to this check point.


as an edit. It does not appear the V, stays at any point in a TIGHT V, it is widening though the swing, after its optimum tightness.

 

[straightleg]

Tewk's "stepping open drill"

i believe shoulder down and in would help .
stepping open while forming a "stack" or RVP connection point.

Just for the sake of discussion, Tewks is teaching much more of a wrap, and "flattening,

As compared to this clip of Hamilton, who has a much shorter Barrel path to the ball, and not so stacked.

My DD has amore tip and rip, bat path, she is tall, and i thought that might help her , and it did, with low pitches.

When i drill, i will add the stack, keep an eye out now, for this rvp position.

although there does seem to be some hitters, who only get close to this check point.


as an edit. It does not appear the V, stays at any point in a TIGHT V, it is widening though the swing, after its optimum tightness.

I don't know mann. Watch the hand and elbow as it passes, past the stripe of the pants? Are they all lined up, stacked?


SL