What to do when umpire makes his own rules?

[radness]

If the ball itself is getting sticky, I MIGHT have a foreign substance issue.





This is pretty much a 'had to be there' situation as it depends on just how sticky the ball is getting.

Dang funny

Yes or No edlovumpires?

If the ball is now sticky
ARE you sticking to your well written ruling statements.
*no substance on the ball

Or your in the maybe camp
You might call something but you still dont know... Wishy washy...

 

[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

Dang funny

Yes or No edlovumpires?

If the ball is now sticky
ARE you sticking to your well written ruling statements.
*no substance on the ball

Or your in the maybe camp
You might call something but you still dont know... Wishy washy...

This is an unfair take. Look, the product is approved, but it might be defective, in which case, it's reasonable to disallow it. He wasn't there. He doesn't know the extent to which the product is defective. He doesn't know if the ball is sticky because of the product, or something else. He had to be there. Despite our utopian wish that the rules be black and white, there is a lot of had to be there involved.

 

[radness]

This is an unfair take. Look, the product is approved, but it might be defective, in which case, it's reasonable to disallow it. He wasn't there. He doesn't know the extent to which the product is defective. He doesn't know if the ball is sticky because of the product, or something else. He had to be there. Despite our utopian wish that the rules be black and white, there is a lot of had to be there involved.

imo
it is a very fair question /point.

If posts are stating rules as they are and are written.
An umpire saying i might toward a difinitive rule no no they specifically posted about... Very fair to find gist in that.

To the point of sticky
Its not about the product.
If the ball has developed for whatever reason a
'Stickiness'
That should be addressed.
*All that needs to happen is a new game ball be exchanged.

If sticky further continues then should suspect of cause be addressed.

 

[EdLovrich]

@RADcatcher The reason I am saying this is a 'need to be there" situation is this. I am not familiar with GG, I have never seen it. In a sidebar conversation with another on this thread, I am being told it is almost like a pine tar rag. If the P is getting enough of that stuff on her hand that it is accumulating on the ball, I am not just replacing the ball, I am removing the P as well. Is GG legal to use? Yes. Is it being used as intended in the case of it accumulating on the ball? No, under Situation 3b above, I quote, " The powered rosin and the comparable drying agent are permitted based on their ability to not transfer to the ball. "

 

[Pigskinguru34]

Here is all I will say on GG. It is a rag and if anyone can find it in a store open the packaging and feel it. The closest comparison for me is a really lessened version of a pine tar rag. It has the feeling of pine tar and unlike rosin this leaves the fingers feeling sticky, therefore dry and much better grip.

So in my opinion I do not know why it is approved for play but that being said it is approved for play. The rag in question was new that game and we even had one more still sealed in the packaging that we asked if we could use.

I guess that is where I have my biggest gripe, we played by the rules. we did not doctor the GG. and we asked if we could open a brand new one to use since he did not like the one he felt. By definition of the rules, if he knew and understood them, we should not have been denied that request.

 

[radness]

cannot have residue on the ball. Like rosin, Gorilla Gold does not affect the ball, only the fingers or hands to which the drying agent is first applied. So, if the pitcher was NOT wiping off and WAS leaving residue on the ball, then the umpire made a correct ruling.

EDIT: opposing coach says pitcher is putting foreign substance on the ball by using gorilla tape. Not sure what you meant by gorilla tape here?

My original post was
Did the umpire check the ball?


in edlov post he commented if its getting on the ball and it's making the ball sticky the Umpire needs to make the right call/ruling.
(that would be umpire checking the ball)

In his next post he said
If sticky was on the ball he
MIGHT have to take action/ruling.
Which made me lol because it went switch to might.



it doesn't matter why the ball is sticky... need to apply the rule to the fact that if the ball is sticky... it needs to be removed from the game and replaced.

You can determine where the substance is coming from if it happens again. But it's not a Might or maybe rule about the ball itself.

Just like when the ball is wet it comes out of the game and is exchanged.
Usually in that case to be dried and used again.

 

[HunterMO]

I’ve personally used GG. It does leave your fingers tacky (if you don’t rub fingers on a towel or pants/jersey). Especially if I press hard on the GG towel to get a heavy tacky feeling.

But I’ve never had it leave a tacky residue on a ball. If anything my fingers end up pulling dirt off the ball because of it.

DD doesn’t like the tacky feeling. She prefers a rosin bag.

 

[radness]

DD doesn’t like the tacky feeling. She prefers a rosin bag.

This is why its about THE BALL.

 

[EdLovrich]

Not sure where I ever said I wouldn't remove the ball. When I said I MIGHT have a foreign substance issue, I was referring to the fact that a pitcher/other player who doctors the ball is ejected. Yes, if this stuff is getting on the ball, the ball will be removed from play.

t doesn't matter why the ball is sticky... need to apply the rule to the fact that if the ball is sticky... it needs to be removed from the game and replaced.

Not sure what rule says that a ball that is sticky must be removed. There is a rule that says a pitcher may request another ball. And there is another rule that states if a player is applying a foreign substance to the ball they shall be ejected. Now, If I have a ball that I deem unplayable, I may (EDIT: may as in I am permitted to, not that it is possible that I would, I am definitely removing the ball) remove that ball from play. IF I determine that the reason the ball is unplayable is because a player was applying a foreign substance to the ball, then that player will also be ejected. Depending on what is on the ball and how much is on the ball, I might not be able to determine if it was placed there by one of the players.

Super Secret Squirrel Decoder ring time: A smart player/coach who is involved with a game when I remove a ball from play and I say, "I can't be certain what this is that is making the ball so sticky, but it sure is similar to Gorilla Gold," might want to think about either using less GG or switching to a rosin bag. I certainly would not give a team a warning about something as serious as doctoring the ball, but I would say out loud that I am not certain but suspect what it might be.

 

[Westwind]

Approved for use.
Approved for use.
Approved for use.

Because the sanction researched it and found out IT DOESN’T LEAVE A RESIDUE ON THE BALL. So they approved it. Story over.

Until it isn’t because some 109 year old umpire starts clucking about it. And the other team gets wind of it. And the kid with a dynamite curve ball gets labeled a cheater. Forever.

Quit reading your own "if‘s ands and buts" into every rule.