Umpire not calling the game by the rules and no protests

[RJK]

Let me start off by saying I greatly appreciate umpires and realize that there is a shortage across the nation. Im also one of those that believe while umpires are human, they are the only ones on the field getting paid. In any other professions, if a job is not done correctly there are some sort of repurcussions. Majority of umpires do a fantastic job and do the job with integrity and professionalism. What I'm curious about is from a coaching persepctive, how do you handle an umpire situation in a tournament where there are no protests and they are not calling the game by the rules?

For example: The other team is batting out of order, other coach admits to the umpire that they batted out of order, but the umpire allows them to continue playing. Same inning, other coach has the wrong number on his lead off hitter and only put first names on the line up card so it appears like they were batting out of order again (I didn't catch it the first time through the line up) so I went out again to ask about it. Then there was also a circle violation in which the umpire sent the runner back to 2nd instead of calling them out. When I asked the umpire inbetween innings about why he didn't call the runner out, he told me that it was because I delayed the game with their whole batting out order situation. All of this happened in the same inning. He essentially told me that it was his game to call however he wanted.

We won the game and the call didn't matter but I was a bit put off because this is an All Star tournament and teams had an entire rec season to get free passes.

How do other coaches approach situations with umpires that want to call the game how they want to and not by the rules?

 

[Gtrips07]

First, don't play in tournaments you can't protest.
Second, have a coach got get the UIC and or TD
Third, don't play for said TD again of they condone that type of behavior
Fourth, remember what level your are playing; 6u won't get the same knowledge base in an umpire as 18u national tournament
Fifth they pay you talk about really isn't a lot of money as most umpires do it to give back to the sport



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[Greatdaytobeawildcat]

Let me start off by saying I greatly appreciate umpires and realize that there is a shortage across the nation. Im also one of those that believe while umpires are human, they are the only ones on the field getting paid. In any other professions, if a job is not done correctly there are some sort of repurcussions. Majority of umpires do a fantastic job and do the job with integrity and professionalism. What I'm curious about is from a coaching persepctive, how do you handle an umpire situation in a tournament where there are no protests and they are not calling the game by the rules?

For example: The other team is batting out of order, other coach admits to the umpire that they batted out of order, but the umpire allows them to continue playing. Same inning, other coach has the wrong number on his lead off hitter and only put first names on the line up card so it appears like they were batting out of order again (I didn't catch it the first time through the line up) so I went out again to ask about it. Then there was also a circle violation in which the umpire sent the runner back to 2nd instead of calling them out. When I asked the umpire inbetween innings about why he didn't call the runner out, he told me that it was because I delayed the game with their whole batting out order situation. All of this happened in the same inning. He essentially told me that it was his game to call however he wanted.

We won the game and the call didn't matter but I was a bit put off because this is an All Star tournament and teams had an entire rec season to get free passes.

How do other coaches approach situations with umpires that want to call the game how they want to and not by the rules?

Did you address the batter who batted in the wrong position before the next pitch to the subsequent batter? (It sort of reads like you discovered at some point that they had batted out of order previously, and that the umpire "allowed them to continue playing" - which is an odd way to phrase it... the penalty if you catch it after the at bat, but before the next pitch to the following batter, is the batter who should have batted is out - the team still gets to continue to play).

And why did you not question the leaving early / look back violation (whichever it was) at the time it occurred, and wait until between innings to ask? If you don't address it before the next pitch, that's kind of on you (realizing that he indeed may have misapplied a rule there, but you didn't question it properly).

He may not have appropriately adjudicated parts of this game, but coaches should also know how to properly protest when it's appropriate.

Edit: I guess I missed that there are "no protests" - so, I empathize, you can't go ask a TD for help. But does that mean you can't ask the umpire for clarification in the proper time?

Edit 2: sounds like another case of a single ump game.

 

[GunnerShotgun]

How do other coaches approach situations with umpires that want to call the game how they want to and not by the rules?

I would have a conversation with the other coach and see where they are at with the umpires. Typically you would involve the tournament director during the game and try and resolve it. If it's some unofficial contest (friendly, pool play, scrimmage) you can just tell the umpire their services are no longer needed (they get paid either way I assume). I have done that once or twice with the support of the other team.

 

[djcarter1966]

It doesn't get better Varsity HS even in playoffs umpires are terrible, literally don't know basic rules, it's an epidemic

 

[Lemond]

Yes, there are umpires who have rules to learn. However, to be fair and honest, I know a LOT of coaches in similar or worse situations. Oh, and then there are even more players who are there, as well. Oh, and then the parents are typically even worse.

The case was made on another thread that blues were the only ones getting paid, but I have seen plenty of coaches that were paid that fall into this category. And, as a parent, when I became invested (financially, mentally, emotionally, etc) in the sport in support of my kids (baseball and softball), I felt it was my responsibility to know and understand the rules, or do NOT complain. And, yes, there were several myths that carried over for me to correct.

Now, I find it is becoming my responsibility to TEACH these things to fellow parents, coaches, players, and yes, even umpires as the situation allows. It actually helps us ALL out, and has allowed me to continue to learn and appreciate the sport and all its participants!

Throwdown challenge to us all: next you feel the urge to complain, perhaps find a way to teach, or, better yet, learn!

 

[MoJo]

Fifth they pay you talk about really isn't a lot of money as most umpires do it to give back to the sport

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Umps are getting plenty of pay. The average now is equaling about $40 hr. There needs to be other types of support and investment.

Youth sports is about $20 billion. Lots of money going around.

 

[_MIA_]

There needs to be other types of support

I support the whiny-as@ parents getting kicked out the first time they complain..does that count?

 

[Gtrips07]

Umps are getting plenty of pay. The average now is equaling about $40 hr. There needs to be other types of support and investment.

Youth sports is about $20 billion. Lots of money going around.

That's not the average here in Florida, and you're excluding equipment, uniforms, transportation, lodging, meals, etc.

I worked the premier PGF event in Florida two years ago that had three of the top 18u teams in the nation and multiple Power 5 coaches. By the time you add gas and meals, I didn't break even.
.
If there was so much money in umpiring, there wouldn't be a shortage of umpires. And any dollar amount per hr isn't attractive when you have to deal with malcontent coaches and parents. This is worse at the lower levels with the folks you're trying to convince to continue umpiring.





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[marriard]

Umps are getting plenty of pay. The average now is equaling about $40 hr. There needs to be other types of support and investment.

You are about 2x over on what I calculate my average pay rate to be - and mine is skewed because I do some college games where it gets somewhat closer to that.

To the original poster; batting out of order is not the umpires call or responsibility to notice. You have to bring it to their attention. If you don't play continues... and if you do, depending on what is happening and when, there is often no action but to play on.

Their reasoning about the LBR is not acceptable; but if you didn't question it WHEN it happened, then the opportunity is gone.

So I have THREE pieces of advice:
1. Don't play in no-protest competitive tournaments (no-protests around here are college showcases where you can throw the rule book out)
2. If you don't understand the rules and how to appeal a call (and when) that is on you. If you can't explain what SHOULD HAPPEN and WHAT THE RULE IN THE RULEBOOK IS; then what exactly are you wanting changed.
3. When something does happen, the time to address it is RIGHT THEN

For somewhere around 99% of umpires this isn't a profession and is certainly not how they make a living. It is just something they do (and in most cases enjoy). Just because you are getting a few bucks doesn't make it a profession. Sure, I take it seriously, research, learn, etc - I love the challenge. But most umpires are not doing that. If they did, there would be more than 4 or 5 regular umpires posting on this board for example.