Video on bat path

[rdbass]

I don't like or teach that arm action..

But, yet you say this:

Is it possible a drill like this could fix barrel dumping?

I'm lost in where you're going with this.

 

[Greenmonsters]

You presented the question earlier as to whether or not John was an effective instructor.

First .... it is a bit unfair to blame John for being an ineffective instructor when the person interpreting his information ignores his words, ignores his gestures and ignores what he wrote. At some point the person supposedly attempting to learn has to accept responsibility and take ownership for the act of learning.

To address your question …. it’s difficult to claim that John is an effective instructor based on "just" this instruction video. Why? Because what he is instructing here isn’t used by his players. In other words, based only on this video … a video of what he states is one of the best drills for developing hitters …. that what he is instructing is not being learned. We could blame John’s hitters … we could blame John’s instruction … we could blame the usefulness of the content and its validity with respect to the Hanson Principle, which is where I tend to direct the blame. In the end, we can be happy for the success of his teams, but we can't truly credit this drill, as folks simply aren't learning this particular instruction.

Ken said it well ..... sometimes success isn't a function of what you teach ...... and sometimes what you teach isn't even being learned.

I suspect John is doing something right .... perhaps many things in fact .... but this drill isn't one of them.

Take note that John didn't perform the drill and suggest that the swing would end up differently. He truly believed that a riseball had the profile that he showed ..... and he truly believed in the notion of the barrel tracing that fantasized ball flight path. He got it wrong .... it happens .... and fortunately his hitters didn't quite learn his instruction here. Hopefully others seeing this thread will punt on the notion and spare themselves the wasted effort.

Actually, I was neither blaming or crediting, just trying to get at what specifically is responsible for JT's college hitter's success.

I disagree w/ the bold. IMO, the Hansen Principle is fine when comparing apples and apples i.e., game swings to the MLB standard. IMO, if a swing is not in that pattern though, then exaggeration(s) in the "opposite" direction, which clearly will not be a Hansen match, can lead to "averaging" and end up with a close approximation of the desired ideal. Do you not agree that there are drills and movements that do NOT replicate the high-level swing that actually can and do help produce/re-inforce the HLBB swing???

 

[TDS]

But, yet you say this:

I'm lost in where you're going with this.

Rdbass,do you think the arm action results were the same with every hitter??? All I am saying is he got results with the drill or he wouldn't use it... Is it a bandaid drill?? maybe but who cares if he gets results?

 

[rdbass]

Is it possible that John got results with this drill?? Watch MLB's take there practice hacks (undeck circle).. Are some of those swings You would teach? Knowing John it must have worked or he would't be teaching it. Is it possible a drill like this could fix barrel dumping?

Yes but, you also said the bold above and that is

Is it possible a drill like this could fix barrel dumping?
How so and with out causing another problem.

And that is why I asked the question in bold above. If you don't want to answer that's fine. I never said anything about the rise ball drill. I don't agree with it. So, I stayed out of further discussion until your statement.

 

[TDS]

Yes but, you also said the bold above and that is


And that is why I asked the question in bold above. If you don't want to answer that's fine. I never said anything about the rise ball drill. I don't agree with it. So, I stayed out of further discussion until your statement.

Is the drill conducive to turning the barrel back towards the catcher? What if You had young girls who all they did was turn the barrel straight back and looped under every pitch up in the zone?

What are some drill you may use to resolve dumping the barrel?

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

I don't like or teach that arm action... You know as well as I do the drill must have changed some girls normal swing so they would have a chance at the rise ball.

Right .... there is no way you would teach arm action like what is shown.

My guess is that anyone who has ever faced a riseball ... or any pitch for that matter .... knows that what is being taught here won't work in a real game situation ... and through experience they abandoned any notion of the drill with the goal of getting the job done.

Me ... I don't want any of this arm action .... I want to arc the barrel at Go!, ... with a goal of getting the barrel behind the ball and releasing it with 'direction'. I let the arc take care of itself. If you wish to be 'compact', then you take care of business 'RitNow!'.

There is no need to teach umpteen swings ..... it isn't like I'm going to see the ball and select a particular swing .... I'm simply going to turn the barrel to the ball ..... RitNow!

 

[Greenmonsters]

Watch what John is instructing ...... it's arm action.

Listen to what he perceives to be the flight of a riseball and his goal of having the barrel trace the path of that false perception.

It isn't like he said he was trying to do this as a drill to obtain a different result. He clearly explained his logic ... which was incorrect.

He simply got this one wrong IMO.

Ever think that maybe it was intentional?

If a dog is trained to sit in response to the command "Roll Over", would you claim that the dog can't sit properly?

It's not the "WHAT" that's the hard part - any fool can watch MLB and hours of slow mo video. The hard part is HOW to teach the WHAT. I can respect that you're not inclined to show HOW you teach, but IMO that puts you on weak footing to critique some other instructor or coach who shows HOW they achieve the desired goal using "intentionally misleading" cues and non-compliant Hansen Principle drills.

 

[rdbass]

Is the drill conducive to turning the barrel back towards the catcher? What if You had young girls who all they did was turn the barrel straight back and looped under every pitch up in the zone?

What are some drill you may use to resolve dumping the barrel?

What barrel dump? I didn't see any barrel dump in either youtube demos. For the record I teach my DD to 'turn the barrel to the ball forward'. What barrel dumping are you seeing in the 2 demos. These hitters don't even come close to 'turning the barrel to the ball'.
TDS,
I looked at these videos 5x's I don't see no barrel dumping. Please point out the barrel dumping.
http://softball.coachesdirectory.com/article/bat-path--ehren-earleywine--univ-of-mo-video.html

 

[FiveFrameSwing]

Actually, I was neither blaming or crediting, just trying to get at what specifically is responsible for JT's college hitter's success.

I disagree w/ the bold. IMO, the Hansen Principle is fine when comparing apples and apples i.e., game swings to the MLB standard. IMO, if a swing is not in that pattern though, then exaggeration(s) in the "opposite" direction, which clearly will not be a Hansen match, can lead to "averaging" and end up with a close approximation of the desired ideal. Do you not agree that there are drills and movements that do NOT replicate the high-level swing that actually can and do help produce/re-inforce the HLBB swing???

John was promoting a fantasized ball path ..... and despite what someone else here wrote, it was about a 'riseball'. He repeatedly said it was about a riseball .... he motioned his belief of a riseball flight .... and he put words on the video stating that it was a riseball drill. Folks may wish to believe otherwise ... but he was pretty clear.

He was teaching an unworkable solution that included poor 'arm action' with a faulty image of the 'bat path' to be realized.

He simply theorized a riseball flight path .... got that incredibly wrong .... and then went on to theorize swing mechanics and bat path to match his theorized faulty notion of what a riseball was like.

He goofed. No need for anyone else to repeat the error IMO. Nobody swings that way ..... which is why the Hanson Principle stamps the drill as a failure.

 

[rdbass]

TDS,
I know your fishing and I'm not biting. Maybe you need better bait? Just saying.