Two Lookback Ruling Questions

[MTR]

The key here is the point that the rules clearly state that when a runner is legitimately off base and is moving when the pitcher takes possession of the ball in the circle, the runner may stop once, and the proceed to the previous base or the next base. None state that the runner is allowed one stop between each base or under any circumstance as long as the LBR remains in effect.

 

[AtlUmpSteve]

I'm just going by the rule posted by




I would like to see the whole rule but as stated "after she rounds a base and the pitcher has the ball she must comply with the lbr." It doesn't state what base just after she rounds a base.

Bretman explains it better here. I would quote him but it would be out of context.

http://www.discussfastpitch.com/softball-rules-questions/5555-when-does-look-back-rule-take-effect-5.html


I do agree this doesn't matter in the higher levels of competition.

Does anyone have the latest ASA version they could post?

Just wondering, how many bases does anyone think "a base" is? I think it is just one, and pretty sure that is the only definition/explanation of "a base"; if the rule intended or meant it could happen at "every" base, or multiple bases on any single play, wouldn't it use different verbiage?

 

[T Red]

Just wondering, how many bases does anyone think "a base" is? I think it is just one, and pretty sure that is the only definition/explanation of "a base"; if the rule intended or meant it could happen at "every" base, or multiple bases on any single play, wouldn't it use different verbiage?

I don't think the NCAA rule is that clear. It does not state she may round only one base per play. It doesn't say she cannot round the next base, which is "one base".


The NCAA version of the rule is below:
12.24.3 A batter-runner or base runner may round a base and go directly to the
next base without stopping. If, however, she stops after rounding a base, and
the pitcher has possession of the ball in the pitcher’s circle, she must comply
with the look-back rule.

ASA "thanks to GI Tom"
34. Look Back Rule
When a runner is legitimately off base after a pitch, or as a result of a batter completing their turn at bat, and is stationary when the pitcher has the ball in the circle, the runner MUST immediately attempt to advance to the next base or immediately return to the base left. The responsibility is entirely on the runner. There is no obligation on the pitcher to look, fake or throw.

ASA if the runner rounds 2nd which is legal and decides to return two 2nd, wouldn't 2nd be the "immediately return to the base left" portion of the rule above? Or would she have to return to 1st.

 

[FPump]

I don't think the NCAA rule is that clear. It does not state she may round only one base per play. It doesn't say she cannot round the next base, which is "one base".


The NCAA version of the rule is below:
12.24.3 A batter-runner or base runner may round a base and go directly to the
next base without stopping. If, however, she stops after rounding a base, and
the pitcher has possession of the ball in the pitcher’s circle, she must comply
with the look-back rule.

The reason that it doesn't appear "that clear" is probably because this IS NOT the NCAA version of the Look-Back rule. In the NCAA Rule Book, 12.24 is Overrunning or Oversliding Bases. The last eight words of 12.24.3 tells us that.

The Look-Back rule is 12.21, it contains 19 sub-sections, two Notes, and covers almost two pages. Along with the two and a half pages on the Look-Back Rule in the Manual, I can assure you the rule is quite clear.

"The intent of the rule is simple: Once the pitcher has the ball in the circle the runners must immediately proceed or retreat." 2012 NCAA Softball Umpires Manual

 

[MTR]

The reason that it doesn't appear "that clear" is probably because this IS NOT the NCAA version of the Look-Back rule. In the NCAA Rule Book, 12.24 is Overrunning or Oversliding Bases. The last eight words of 12.24.3 tells us that.

The Look-Back rule is 12.21, it contains 19 sub-sections, two Notes, and covers almost two pages. Along with the two and a half pages on the Look-Back Rule in the Manual, I can assure you the rule is quite clear.

Want to make it real clear? Get rid of it.

"The intent of the rule is simple: Once the pitcher has the ball in the circle the runners must immediately proceed or retreat." 2012 NCAA Softball Umpires Manual

And that simplicity was marred by the allowance of coaches to make it a strategy. It went from controlling the flow of the game to controlling the runners. The whole thing is absurd and completely unnecessary.

Want to make it real clear? Get rid of it.

 

[T Red]

The Look-Back rule is 12.21, it contains 19 sub-sections, two Notes, and covers almost two pages. Along with the two and a half pages on the Look-Back Rule in the Manual, I can assure you the rule is quite clear.

19 sub-sections, two Notes, and covers almost two pages. Sounds like our tax code. Real clear

I agree with MTR. We use it every chance we can as strategy. Really be better to eliminate it.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Start the petition now!

 

[MTR]

Start the petition now!

ASA

Started last year by just trying to get the result of an LBR violation a dead ball and all runners go to the last base touched.

Received absolutely zero, nil, zip, nada consideration in any committee of which I am aware.

 

[FPump]

Want to make it real clear? Get rid of it.



And that simplicity was marred by the allowance of coaches to make it a strategy. It went from controlling the flow of the game to controlling the runners. The whole thing is absurd and completely unnecessary.

Want to make it real clear? Get rid of it.

No disagreement here......would make life a lot simpler.
I also do SP, and as you have said a 'zillion' times......its never been a problem in that game.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

How it was before the circle was created, was that the runner could lead off. Then, the pitcher had to look at you. (Look Back Rule.) If she did, you went back to the base, if she forgot - you could stay off of the base. It was pretty simple and it was 1964. Ha. I think that it stayed that way, until approx. 1980. There never was a problem, that I recall.