Two Lookback Ruling Questions

[Goobie]

High School Varsity Game. Same game for both cases. One for Home Team, one for Away Team.

1) Batter is walked. As she is heading to first base the catcher returns the ball to pitcher who is in the circle. The base runner touches first base, rounds the corner, sees pitcher has ball, stops and immediately returns to first base. There was no long pause off the base. She rounded, took a step, immediately stopped... changed direction and returned to first base. <she was ruled out due to lookback rule>

2) First and third are occupied with no outs. Base runner on 1st base steals 2nd base on the release of the pitch. While BR is running to 2nd base, catcher quickly returns ball to the pitcher who is in the circle. Just like play 1 above, the base runner "rounds" 2nd and takes a step off the bag towards 3rd (3rd was occupied at the time)... seeing the pitcher has the ball in the circle, she immediately returns to 2nd base. <she was ruled out due to lookback rule>

In neither case was there a significant pause in the base runner returning to the bag. That wasn't an issue with the umpire. He stated that the base runner in both cases cannot round the bag at all when the pitcher has the ball in the circle without immediately proceeding to the next base. The "stop once and immediately go back" piece was not applicable in either of these cases due to the walk and 3rd being occupied. My understanding (in both cases) is the base runner could round, stop and immediately return without penalty.

btw.. the pitcher did not make any play on either base runner so that was not an issue.

Any difference between the two cases? Walk vs Steal?

 

[mtnbama]

I think both of these rulings were wrong. The NCAA version of the rule is below:

12.24.3 A batter-runner or base runner may round a base and go directly to the
next base without stopping. If, however, she stops after rounding a base, and
the pitcher has possession of the ball in the pitcher’s circle, she must comply
with the look-back rule.

In other words, the runner can round the base with the pitcher in possession of the ball, but they have to immediately do something -- go back or go on.

 

[Comp]

Without being there to see the length of pause it would not be possible to say if just standing there to long could have been the reason they were called out. However, if the umpire stated the runner is not allowed to round the bag at all when the pitcher has the ball in the circle, they would be completely incorrect. The ball in the circle does not stop playing action, and if the runner wanted to keep running they are perfectly legal to do so. In fact, as the rules are written, the runner could actually round each base, stop, continue to the next base, round, stop, continue to the next base.........

 

[Tex]

The umpire made bad calls in both plays. The runner and batter runner are allowed one stop after the lock-back is in effect. This umpire needs to re-learn the look-back rule. Umpire should not be umpiring past the local rec. leaques.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

I hate it when umpires make calls like is described here, because then, the next game you get some parent yelling "She can't do that!"

 

[Comp]

Its not just parents, its coaches too. Doing a 10U tournament a couple of weeks ago. Batter walked with runner on 3rd, jogged to 1st, rounded about 6', stopped, took off for 2nd. The whole time the defensive coach is screaming "she is out, she is out, she cant stop".

 

[PGSAKen]

Once she stops she has to directly go back or directly go to next base. She can not look back and then advance. hence the look back rule.

Poor understanding of the rules by the umpire.

 

[umpkc]

I agree that a lot of umpires blow this rule and am not sure where they get this interpretation of not being able to round the bag, stop, and then immediately advance or return. You are allowed to do this. Immediately is the question. Some runners immediately are not as quick as others.
The actual reason for the look back name came from years ago, before the circle, when the pitcher had to actually look the runner back to the bag while in control of the ball. If the pitcher did not look the runner back, he/she could continue to stand there. The rules committee decided to take some pressure off of the pitcher and put the circle around the mound. Still calling it the look back rule.

 

[knightsb]

1) Batter is walked. As she is heading to first base the catcher returns the ball to pitcher who is in the circle. The base runner touches first base, rounds the corner, sees pitcher has ball, stops and immediately returns to first base. There was no long pause off the base. She rounded, took a step, immediately stopped... changed direction and returned to first base. <she was ruled out due to lookback rule>

Goobie, what a timely post.... DD was called out this weekend on exactly the play that you described. I would not have worded it any differently. She rounded first looked for the ball, found it was with the pitcher and returned to first. PU said she hesitated too long.... Her hesitation was less than 1 second while she was finding who was in possession of the ball.

 

[Amy in AZ.]

umpkc, Exactly! Because I played ball, way back then.

She can not look back and then advance. hence the look back rule.

Sorry, that is incorrect.