The hands - How high is too high?

[softballphreak]

You do not push or pull the bat with the arms. The torso rotation breaks inertia. The elbow movement sets the bat in position to be thrown, and then the forearms/wrists throw the barrel.

The position below is where the throw starts, and the blur and movement of the barrel to its position below, did not happen from a forearm twist to make the barrel go toward the catcher.

So the elbows, arms, etc., stay connected as the torso breaks inertia, and then the barrel is thrown as in the picture. Right?

 

[jbooth]

So the elbows, arms, etc., stay connected as the torso breaks inertia, and then the barrel is thrown as in the picture. Right?

Basically yes, but I need to clarify.

The inertia of the barrel can be broken while the bat is being waggled, and if not then, it is broken as the back elbow drops and the shoulders tilt. But, there is no hand force being applied to make the barrel move rearward during that process. The hands apply an ulnar deviation force once you get to where he is in the picture. Any supination that occurs, is due to the force of the arcing barrel, turning the palm up. There is no deliberate supination, they are actually trying NOT to supinate, but that is impossible. It eventually occurs. They are holding their hand position as long as possible and then hammering the ball.

It's what Bonds, Pujols, Williams, Cepeda all said they do, and you can see they are trying to do that. If you choose not to believe them, that's your right. I believe them.

Note how Pujols' top hand remains nearly vertical even as his elbow drops and his shoulders tilt. The barrel barely moves, and that movement is due to the shoulder tilt and elbow drop. He isn't supinating has top hand during that phase.

 

[rdbass]

I have no idea what was posted. I'm dumb like that. I'm so dumb I don't even know if the discussion between jbooth & MTS is who believes the hands/wrist turn the bat or if the shoulder /tilt turns the bat with no hand involvement. I sure don't know what the big words mean. I'm just an average dad that is really trying to follow along. I will try and say what I think happens and then someone can say if I'm close or way off. I know if I raise my back elbow, which will either 45 degree or have my bat vertically raised . If I have my back elbow raised my hands need to do something to either 45 degree the bat or hold it vertical. I know alot goes on but, I'm just keeping it simple. When I then lower the back elbow after having the bat either 45 degree or vertical my hands need to do something. If my hands did nothing after lowering my back elbow/slotting a bat held vertically would then be pointing back at the catcher. I would not be able to have my back/rear arm palm facing the pitcher. My hands/wrist needs to assist as my back elbow is raised or lowered. If that is/ what is being said then I agree. I am saying the hands/wrist need to assist in getting to this position.

 

[softballphreak]

Basically yes, but I need to clarify.

The inertia of the barrel can be broken while the bat is being waggled, and if not then, it is broken as the back elbow drops and the shoulders tilt. But, there is no hand force being applied to make the barrel move rearward during that process. The hands apply an ulnar deviation force once you get to where he is in the picture. Any supination that occurs, is due to the force of the arcing barrel, turning the palm up. There is no deliberate supination, they are actually trying NOT to supinate, but that is impossible. It eventually occurs. They are holding their hand position as long as possible and then hammering the ball.

It's what Bonds, Pujols, Williams, Cepeda all said they do, and you can see they are trying to do that. If you choose not to believe them, that's your right. I believe them.

Note how Pujols' top hand remains nearly vertical even as his elbow drops and his shoulders tilt. The barrel barely moves, and that movement is due to the shoulder tilt and elbow drop. He isn't supinating has top hand during that phase.

I think I understand. My interpretation of your description, I believe there is hand action, but later in the swing prior to contact. Throwing the barrel after it turns the corner. Not sliding hands or letting the bat unhinge, but rather throwing the barrel at the optimum time.