The Flip

[Sponge]

Ive been watching trying to catch the finger and wrist flip on the elite players. I know how important the fingers are in the flip and it seems what I can tell my daughter is flipping starting with her baby finger then ring causeing a screwball type spin but the ball stays far right of the plate alot of the time.

The wrist.....is the flip of the wrist (hard to explain) but almost as if the middle finger comes straight back on top of the forearm much like a basket ball shot wrist motion? Or is it more centered on the middle to index finger much like throwing darts?

On a fast drop ball is ther a specific finger that adds pressure? Hearing the interviews finger pressure is important in different pitches...

Thanks ahead of time...I really value the advice on this forum

Mike

 

[Ken Krause]

Mike, are you talking about the flip change, or the wrist snap?

 

[Sponge]

I do get too detailed at times. My DD is just having troubles understanding the standart fastball/drop wrist snap. How the wrist and fingers snap at release. When I watch the videos at times it seems the fingers are directly behind the ball and the wrist snaps forward. Others look as if the hand comes in at an angle...and the snap may be different....

Sorry for any confusion. We are looking to understand and have drills to get her snap down once and for all.

 

[sluggers]

First, get her pinkie off the ball. She should be using either a three finger or two finger grip for fastballs.

Second, the wrist is part of a complex motion prior to release. The forearm rotates counterclockwise (when viewed by a right hand pitcher) at release. The wrist "snap" should be thought of as the snapping of a whip, not like the snapping of fingers. That is, the wrist snap is the natural culmination of the motion of the arm. No power is "added" by the contraction of the wrist muscles.

Third, you are getting way, way too focused on the details. Pitchers who think "do step 1, now do step 2, now do step 3" during their pitching motion will never reach their full potential. Pitching is a flow. So, focusing on "which fingers touch the ball last" may be counterproductive.

She should be working on creating a whip like motion with her arm, with her fingers being the end of the whip. No part of the whip is ever stiff or inflexible. The more she thinks about "making sure my ring finger touches the ball 0.001 seconds less than my middle finger", the slower she will get.

Fourth, "pressure of the fingers"--You have to understand a little about teaching how to do a very precise physical motion. A coach says "Do XYZ". The player may hear "XYZ", but her body may do "ABC". It doesn't have anything to do with the player being an idiot or the coach being stupid. It has to do when the body translates a series of words into physical action. So, sometimes if the coach says "focus on E", then suddenly the player does "XYZ". The player may think, "Gee, focusing on E is the key to the universe", but it isn't. It was simply the key to that specific player's universe. Telling another player to "focus on E" may or may not help that player do "XYZ".

 

[Ken Krause]

What Ray said. Especially on not worrying about "snapping" the wrist. Way too much time is spent on that, and in my opinion trying to snap the wrist gets in the way of the wrist actually doing its job.

 

[CoachFP]

What Ray said. Especially on not worrying about "snapping" the wrist. Way too much time is spent on that, and in my opinion trying to snap the wrist gets in the way of the wrist actually doing its job.

I agree, especially for young girls. They don't have the strength to "snap" their wrists while the arm and elbow are whipping through the zone. Let the wrist follow through as best as they can and not worry about something they can't control.

 

[Sponge]

I think

I think I am just trying to understand that final phase myself in detail. She has a problem...not every time but many the ball seems to have a screw ball like spin to it and I can see it coming off of her hand seeming to peel off to her right. Almost as if the hand wasnt coming straight home. Should I just
have her do flips in the basement?

 

[sjsss]

" Should I just have her do flips in the basement?"

1. No isolated flips. These are counter-productive. The posts by Sluggers, Ken and Coach explain why.

2. On the screwball spin problem, have her keep her thumb on the ball longer - this will enable her to wrist pronate normally so that her hand does not come inside the ball. Having her put more pressure on the ball with her thumb will help her accomplish this.

Good luck
Steve

 

[FJRGerry]

If by flips you mean wrist snaps then I think there is a valid reason for practicing them periodically. For example, I do these while sitting on a bucket while my daughter practices pitching in the garage during foul weather and the winter. After doing 100+ snaps I can feel that I've worked my forearm muscles. Doing them helps develop these often overlooked muscles, as well as allowing your daughter to focus on the correct spin of the ball and palm position on release. For myself I know I'm releasing correctly when the ball goes straight up and back down to my hand with minimal hand movement to catch the ball. If my palm is facing in or out then the ball won't go straight up. You can use this simple drill to explain the importance of having the palm face the target when throwing the fastball. Also it's good for watching the four seam rotation. Have your daughter watch the spin and see if she can count the spins while flipping the ball as high as possible while sitting. When doing full motion pitches though I don't ask my daughter to "focus on the wrist snap" but to just let the follow through be natural.

 

[Sponge]

Thanks

Want to say how much I appreciate the input and opinions I get from folks here. ITs tough because instructors are different...she has been to a few at earlier this year was caught between HS coach and instructor. So we decided to work this form out ourselves and she is very close. Im needing a video card and a cable and I will upload a video and hopefully its a good thing. I dont share all the details with her, mostly its me trying to figure out the details.

She feels the whip every once and awile and what I meant by doing flip drills wasnt isolated flips from a pitching position, it was more of a 12 oclock or 3 oclock finish drill. That way she can watch the spin and work on a a loose whip. She does use a 3 finger...moved to it recently so thats on track. She does flip the ball in the air watching the differnt spin she gets.

Ill get that video up soon....Thanks
Mike