Teaching the bent-fingered rise and the up-and-in

[slingnit]

Eephus pitch, only two MLB hitters to go yard on it.

I think it has only been thrown twice in MLB, lol.

 

[GOINGDEEP]

I think it has only been thrown twice in MLB, lol.

It was only hit yard after multiple throws to the same batter. Ego test!!

It's been throw a good bit over the years. I've tried for fun to teach it to DD, it's almost impossible to sell it correctly underhand. But just maybe..........somebody might see it on the metro news reel this year.

I think? All that Hal is meaning is sometimes "different" adds an advantage. Why are good LHP so much more effective than RHP of equal talent? It's because they are different, not the norm that batters see everyday. That's why MLB has eras where a pitch rules, and then batters adapt. Then the next few years a new pitch rules. A cycle.

 

[slingnit]

It was only hit yard after multiple throws to the same batter. Ego test!!

It's been throw a good bit over the years. I've tried for fun to teach it to DD, it's almost impossible to sell it correctly underhand. But just maybe..........somebody might see it on the metro news reel this year.

I think? All that Hal is meaning is sometimes "different" adds an advantage. Why are good LHP so much more effective than RHP of equal talent? It's because they are different, not the norm that batters see everyday. That's why MLB has eras where a pitch rules, and then batters adapt. Then the next few years a new pitch rules. A cycle.

Yeah, we played with the quick release, releasing the ball when you throw your hands before your circle the arm. Just for laughs. But it was fun.

I agree for giving different looks, I just don't believe changing tempo, faster or slower, is the way to go about it. Too much room for error with timing of hips, arm, release point, etc... Girls and guys spend 10 yrs or better attempting to perfect one style, let alone two. Say a girl with a totally unique pitching style gave batters trouble, I would say that is different but eventually hitters would adapt. But to have a run of the mill pitcher show a new style for one or two pitches(dump then strike), I would say that I've seen it and know what to expect. If she could throw all or most of her pitches from both styles I would that she could cause some problems. I know there have been girls from around here that would throw the slingshot in once or twice an inning but that usually faded out by 12u. Once the girls got to see it, it was just another pitch. And saying that after seeing a strange windup once the batter would just watch, in disbelief, the next time it is shown, well that is underestimating the batters will to hit. You will catch them swinging at something odd just as often as you will catch them watching, espcially with 2 strikes and close to the zone.

 

[Perfect Circle]

Slingnit... I only enjoy great debates. Not seeing one in the making here. It is my fault, for bringing up CUs. So this topic should go to the proper thread, but I'll continue as long as they indulge it. I had no intention of reading your book either, nor a passing post, nor a over simplification of your inferred knowledge of access to polled results of the Game as a whole. You advised me that you didn't think it was a change up. I retorted that I have no intention of teaching my DD anything that the majority of softball/baseball. This is a life lesson for her and I. I told her it is "Her CU" and individual personification of the way we approach the game. Its her life and my money. If I tell her it is a "4 fingered strike'em out Floater" thats what she will call it.

I do disagree with you on this... in every way:

• I make movies...not Hollywood Bull, but every game DD plays... It works in our real life. When you in-gauged me in a comment with your relative judgement, that was less than accusative, saying "You don't think it is a change"... you went to 10u...My World... The rest of your point center on a lack of knowledge of 10u as your points, and ending with a misunderstanding about what I said....I'll get to that lastly.
• Getting 99% of everyone to agree on here only shows that your new. You might want to check out the Change up threads... You'll find several different explanations of the Truth form the short steppers. My opinion is that any change or deviation from the path that the hitter has invested their myelin in practicing off a tee, or hitting off a machine, weather it be with spot, spin and speeds is a CU. Technically speaking, its the illusion that leads to confusion
• Not sure about your Kid, but mine could throw strikes 90-95% of the time @ 8. She had lots of 6Ks in a row, and a 9Ks in a row in rec. tournament. Then she was asked to play TB-B. This is when I bought the book. What kinda Kids are you talking about... TB or Rec??? My DD dumped the ball 3 times in a row. She was playing up on her first TB 10u friendly...She got stuck out in the field, and the coach got them down to losing the game, then put her in... she dumped three balls and said my hands got to cold playing outfield. She don't care if you laugh or cry...
• Again which kind are you talking about? Let me ask you do you think TB or Rec kids are better... JK Don't answer that, or you will learn how to type. DD plays TB 10U A.... they stand in against our pitchers... one has one of the best CU in the business... They are looking for them. Plus I tell DD don't try to worry about what you are told in practice...they say it over and over and over in the games. The 2 on the field, and the three in the dug out... every move is broadcasted live and in color.
• Again, they don't have time to think, it is all told to them every minute of every game. They would learn faster if the coaching was cut in half...at least on our team....
• College is a whole different game and is irrelevant to this post. I will say they need to start doing it on the National Level. (EP: Who are you picking to win the WCWS this year?)
• Thats like saying a CU is a gimmick...Our team throws them at least once to every batter. It is the first pitch that a coach can really call. This is but one of many things that work in conjunction together. The first thing you'll find, is that they do understand. Of course mine is a good card player too. With the book you have an arsenal of strategies, that gives your DD confidence!
• What I said about the first thing you teach is throwing the same way every time. I was talking about 1st day 8yrs old till 10u. My DD pitched 2 styles her first year.....Until you are playing in a league where batters are practicing year round. If your DD can't throw strikes 80+ % you'll never be ready for this stuff. As soon as you are done striking everyone out, and you move up, now they are saying don't throw it across the plate.
  
  As for me defending How... He don't need me, Hopefully he is writing another book, and don't have the time for this. I do admit to taking his Word as Gospel... I can read it, and go out and find out if its right in five min. Now all I got to say to DD is go back and re-read that chapter over again, that's what we will be working on. She wants it on her kindle too.
  

Your lack of a 10u DD is your worst enemy. I'm the Market Share !!!

 

[GOINGDEEP]

You gotta remember most pitchers who make it to MLB adjust or completly change their go to pitch over a career. It's because batter's see and are trained to hit certain hot pitches. That's where FP lacks the adjustment. That's why we see .400, .500, .600 BA in fastpitch. And not so much in MLB where elite hitting should rule. It's because pitching in MLB evolves and FP is stuck in a mentality rut. Bet my house in the next 10-15 years FP catches on, to survive they'll have to.

 

[Greenmonsters]

It was only hit yard after multiple throws to the same batter. Ego test!!

It's been throw a good bit over the years. I've tried for fun to teach it to DD, it's almost impossible to sell it correctly underhand. But just maybe..........somebody might see it on the metro news reel this year.

I think? All that Hal is meaning is sometimes "different" adds an advantage. Why are good LHP so much more effective than RHP of equal talent? It's because they are different, not the norm that batters see everyday. That's why MLB has eras where a pitch rules, and then batters adapt. Then the next few years a new pitch rules. A cycle.

Yes, I agree. Different is effective. And there are lots of ways to be different. Left handed is just one.

But the difference has to be noticeable to be effective! A few years ago I asked my DD what she thought of the other team's All-state pitcher after one of her first varsity games as a freshman (superfluous brag inserted - in which she had 2 of her team's 3 hits and both rbis in a 2-1 victory). DD - She threw pretty hard but had no movement. Me - And left handed too, right? DD - Really? LOL, true story. Don't think, Meat. See the ball, hit the ball.

 

[Greenmonsters]

Slingnit... I only enjoy great debates. Not seeing one in the making here. It is my fault, for bringing up CUs. So this topic should go to the proper thread, but I'll continue as long as they indulge it. I had no intention of reading your book either, nor a passing post, nor a over simplification of your inferred knowledge of access to polled results of the Game as a whole. You advised me that you didn't think it was a change up. I retorted that I have no intention of teaching my DD anything that the majority of softball/baseball. This is a life lesson for her and I. I told her it is "Her CU" and individual personification of the way we approach the game. Its her life and my money. If I tell her it is a "4 fingered strike'em out Floater" thats what she will call it.

I do disagree with you on this... in every way:

• I make movies...not Hollywood Bull, but every game DD plays... It works in our real life. When you in-gauged me in a comment with your relative judgement, that was less than accusative, saying "You don't think it is a change"... you went to 10u...My World... The rest of your point center on a lack of knowledge of 10u as your points, and ending with a misunderstanding about what I said....I'll get to that lastly.
• Getting 99% of everyone to agree on here only shows that your new. You might want to check out the Change up threads... You'll find several different explanations of the Truth form the short steppers. My opinion is that any change or deviation from the path that the hitter has invested their myelin in practicing off a tee, or hitting off a machine, weather it be with spot, spin and speeds is a CU. Technically speaking, its the illusion that leads to confusion
• Not sure about your Kid, but mine could throw strikes 90-95% of the time @ 8. She had lots of 6Ks in a row, and a 9Ks in a row in rec. tournament. Then she was asked to play TB-B. This is when I bought the book. What kinda Kids are you talking about... TB or Rec??? My DD dumped the ball 3 times in a row. She was playing up on her first TB 10u friendly...She got stuck out in the field, and the coach got them down to losing the game, then put her in... she dumped three balls and said my hands got to cold playing outfield. She don't care if you laugh or cry...
• Again which kind are you talking about? Let me ask you do you think TB or Rec kids are better... JK Don't answer that, or you will learn how to type. DD plays TB 10U A.... they stand in against our pitchers... one has one of the best CU in the business... They are looking for them. Plus I tell DD don't try to worry about what you are told in practice...they say it over and over and over in the games. The 2 on the field, and the three in the dug out... every move is broadcasted live and in color.
• Again, they don't have time to think, it is all told to them every minute of every game. They would learn faster if the coaching was cut in half...at least on our team....
• College is a whole different game and is irrelevant to this post. I will say they need to start doing it on the National Level.
• Thats like saying a CU is a gimmick...Our team throws them at least once to every batter. It is the first pitch that a coach can really call. This is but one of many things that work in conjunction together. The first thing you'll find, is that they do understand. Of course mine is a good card player too. With the book you have an arsenal of strategies, that gives your DD confidence!
• What I said about the first thing you teach is throwing the same way every time. I was talking about 1st day 8yrs old till 10u. My DD pitched 2 styles her first year.....Until you are playing in a league where batters are practicing year round. If your DD can't throw strikes 80+ % you'll never be ready for this stuff. As soon as you are done striking everyone out, and you move up, now they are saying don't throw it across the plate.
  
  As for me defending How... He don't need me, Hopefully he is writing another book, and don't have the time for this. I do admit to taking his Word as Gospel... I can read it, and go out and find out if its right in five min. Now all I got to say is go back and re-read that chapter over again, that's what we will be working on. She wants it on her kindle too.
  

Your lack of a 10u DD is your worst enemy. I'm the Market Share !!!

PC for the win based on effort and passion!

Don't worry Slingit, I'd be worried if you could follow PC's logic enough to present a logical counter argument. You need to read the fine print in PC's e-sig!

 

[slingnit]

First off I said "I(I) wouldn't consider that a change" nor would 99.9% of all, not just on this message board. No intentions of getting everyone on here to agree. But you are stuck in the illusion that 10u is the apex of softball. NEWS FLASH, it's not. 10u A, your world? Been there, done that just like many before me. One day you'll look back and say "I was little overboard at 10u, I really don't remember seeing many college coaches at our games". As far as TB/Rec debate, you can go anywhere in the country and find teams that call themselves Gold, A, Elite, or whatever adjective you want and come to find out they are no better than a "Rec" ball team. Don't get me wrong there are different levels of Rec ball. The ones that are just in for the kids to the ones that are actually really good, just don't travel. As far as my kid, she has placed top 10 at 18u Premier, played ASA Gold,.... she will pitching DI on the West Coast, that's all I'll say about her level of play. I've been where you are. Thinking our pitching coach's word was the gospel and finding it wasn't. Not saying Hal isn't a good coach. I have been to countless clinics and lessons, my kids, others on the team, some just to watch other instructors. I will say this, I listen to what everyone has to say and take what I like from each to find what's best for my kid. Do I think Hal make some good points, yes. But do I agree with all of them, no. And I wouldn't expect everyone to agree with my point of view(regardless of how right I am) that was a joke, in case you didn't realize. I've taken the road of listening and regurgitating, it doesn't work. Eventually will have to answer question that you can't because all of your info is from a book, not trial and error, not going out and verifying what you are being taught, not listening to advice and decifering what is best for your kid. If you can only listen to one perspective then you will have only one opinion. I question everything! Not because I don't believe something but because I want to know the one teaching has a clue.

My lack of a 10u DD? They don't stay that age forever.

 

[Sparky Guy]

Bet my house in the next 10-15 years FP catches on, to survive they'll have to.

I know my DD had change her go to pitch in her senior year in college. It took the teams in her conference 3 years to learn how to lay off her rise. She went to her screw more during her senior year. The K's/7 dropped slightly but the ERA and BA stayed very close to the same.

 

[halskinner]

You left one out "See the ball, hit the ball" You forgot "Know when to pull the trigger and start your swing".. It's that 3rd one that a smart pitcher controls 100% of the time.