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Teaching the bent-fingered rise and the up-and-in

halskinner

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May 7, 2008
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I am posting this reply from another thread and starting a new thread. The other was getting quite worn out and long.

Hal

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Hi Rick. You pretty much hit the nail on the head. If you would note the exact position the fingernail of the index finger is digging in, in relationship to the leg of the horseshoe. Flicking the finger at the exact instant of release, at that exact point, is going to give it a 4-seam spin.

My advice to you is try and place the fingernail against the side of the seam and not on the seam. The side of the seam is what you are 'flicking' against.

And, notice how hard the fingernail is digging in. It is VERY uncomfortable and they better have their finger nail trimmed short or it will flat out hurt because you have to dig it in and flick it HARD. The timing of when you start to release and flick your finger is all important.

They will hate it at first and whine like whipped pups. They dont like the uncomfortable feeling at all, until, they practice a little with it and see what it does compared to their old grip and release. Then they dont mind it at all.

Hold your hand up and form a pistol, thumb is the trigger and the index is the barrel. The other three are pointing at your palm. Now turn it as close to upside down as you can. You are probably holding it palm up or maybe a little more. NOW, drop your throwing shoulder a few inches and see how much more the hand can turn to where the 'Gun' is almost perfectly upside down. That is what you have to do, JUST before release, to get the index finger in perfect position to flick the ball with a 12 to 6 backspin.

That 'upside down gun' , the barrel (index finger) should be pointing straight at your catcher's glove when the hand stops and it should be a 'gun'..

Your release point is just in front of the front hip.

As long as their hands are big enough, they will have no problem gripping this.

I have taught this to pitchers as young as 10, they were exceptional and had somewhat big hands. I normally would not start one on this until 12-years-old, because of the hand size issue.

Once your students get proficient with that, then have them practice it but exaggerate the shoulder dip at the end and get under the ball (We always referred to that action as 'ducking under' the ball) even more, watch that killer rise turn into a killer up and in! Exaggerate it to the point they are a little off balance and falling off to the throwing side at the end of the pitch.

Make sure their Dads have a facemask and chest protector when they catch them. These pitches will break hard and there is a VERY good chance the catchers will not react in time ( just like the batters ) and they can get hurt.

I have had 16-year-olds learn this and it broke late and so hard, so much and so fast that it immediately turned into a safety issue for the batters. Once proficient, they had to practice throwing it to a point outside the strike zone, so it would not break right into the batter.

What they will find out is that the faster they CAN throw this, the harder and more it breaks.

That 'spring loaded' finger flicking againt the side of the seam, add rps, A TON OF IT.

Good luck with this and let me know how the kids do with it.

Hal

sneakysoftballpitching.com Some of the best pitching advice you will ever see.

"Losing hurts worse than winning feels good".

Pitching is like owning a piggy bank; The most you can ever get out of it, is EXACTLY what you have been WILLING to put into it.
 

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FastpitchFan

Softball fan
Feb 28, 2008
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Montreal, Canada
Thanks for posting this. It's great.

How hard is it for a young female pitcher to master this?

Do you teach a regular rise first or you can go right away with this?

Marc
 

halskinner

Banned
May 7, 2008
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Thanks for posting this. It's great.

How hard is it for a young female pitcher to master this?

Do you teach a regular rise first or you can go right away with this?

Marc

Hi Marc.

It's simple but it all depends on how willing they are to put up with a grip that is (might as well say it) a little bit painful at first until they get used to it.

Use the football drill I laid out in a different thread, then go to this grip, they go hand in hand.

Many instructors will teach a bent fingered rise to their students. But, the index finger is very comfortably just laid to the side and is seldom in the exact position to make it a 4-seam pitch. No uncomfortable digging in of the finger, no pressure applied with the index. It works somewhat but does not come close to what will happen if they do it like I have laid out.

The extra rpm's that finger flicking adds makes a huge difference.

Also, many pitchers are taught to release at the back hip. That will not work with this grip/pitch. This must be released in front of the front hip.

Hal
 
Last edited:
Jun 16, 2008
5
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Hey Hal

I can't quite figure out the proper release for this pitch. At the point of release, when you flick the index finger,what position should the hand be in for proper rotation?

thanks Joe
 

halskinner

Banned
May 7, 2008
2,695
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Hey Hal

I can't quite figure out the proper release for this pitch. At the point of release, when you flick the index finger,what position should the hand be in for proper rotation?

thanks Joe
Hi Joe.

Your hand should have rotated clockwise (RH Pitcher)to the point where your palm is facing up or with the thumb even below that level a little.

The elbow should be bent and you should be leaning to the throwing side to 'Get under' the ball as much as you can. You flick the finger against the side of the seam AT THE SAME TIME as you are opening your hand up. The last finger to touch the ball is the index finger.

You are trying to form an upside down gun with your hand, or as close to being upside down as you can make it. The clockwise turning of the wrist to get to that point happens quickly at the very end, it is almost a violent action.

Dig it in HARD!

Hal
 
Jun 20, 2008
10
0
Boise, Idaho
Would like a little input here. I am working with several pitchers lately and havingthem use the Spin-Rite spinner to teach the proper spin and have taughtthe girls to throw a football underhand. They are still closing (facing the batter) too soon causing the spin to be sideways so that the catcher can see th eye of the spin resulting in a bullet. Little if any movement occurs. Any hints on drills to improve staying open longer to create the proper spin (ie: the eye of the spin facing 3rd) would be helpful.
Thanks
 
Steg
It is best to learn the riseball from the "K" position---that way the pitcher starts open on the powerline----encourage minimal closing from this position. Use lots of arm whip to help generate/transfer the energy into the wrist/finger snap.
Rick
 

halskinner

Banned
May 7, 2008
2,695
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Would like a little input here. I am working with several pitchers lately and havingthem use the Spin-Rite spinner to teach the proper spin and have taughtthe girls to throw a football underhand. They are still closing (facing the batter) too soon causing the spin to be sideways so that the catcher can see th eye of the spin resulting in a bullet. Little if any movement occurs. Any hints on drills to improve staying open longer to create the proper spin (ie: the eye of the spin facing 3rd) would be helpful.
Thanks
If you are trying to learn the bent fingered riseball and using a spinner, good luck with that.

Try making sure the spinner is not tucked all the way back into the palm, keep it out on the fingers and NOT touching the palm. That is, if you are practicing the cut rise.

AND, try dropping the shoulder at release.

The more you can stay open at release for the cut rise, the closer to backspin you will have. You might also want to try different locations for the grip in relation to the seams. Even if it is a bullet spin, if the seams are just right, it will dance and break somewhat like a knuckleball.

I tried working with a spinner a few times, threw in the towel. They only seemed to respond to wrist snap and no response from anything the fingers did. That was my experience with it anyway. Instructors that do not teach students pitches that utilize fingertip control love the things. I am not one of those instructors.

Hal
 
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halskinner

Banned
May 7, 2008
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I will be trying to locare the pix of the grip for this riseball in my old files. I will post it as soon as I can f9ind it.

Hal
 
Nov 29, 2009
2,773
38
Here is a set of sequential pics of my DD throwing her bent-finger rise. She had a good one. It was her K pitch throughout HS and college. The release is at the front hip with a strong follow through. My DD was taught it when she was 14 and was able to use the grip. She always had a callous on her right index finger.

The biggest key for it to be effective is the girl has to have larger hands. DD is 5' 11".
 

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